The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Neogaia777 · Jul 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Continued belief in Jesus and His death and resurrection is also necessary for salvation.
Also, Jesus does the good work within our lives in the Sanctification process.
So any overcoming sin is the result of Jesus.
All credit goes to Him.
Jesus saves both in Justification and Sanctification.
So not sure why you would think that.

It's like without a problem of flaw, would you still be dependent on anyone (like God or Christ)...?

It would kinda seem that it kind of takes away the "why" of the need to be (dependent upon) or need for God...?

Jason0047 said:
One cannot be perfect without God or Christ.

I thought that much was a given from our prior discussion, of course, I do not mean otherwise...

Jason0047 said:
The need for God or Christ still exists even while one is perfect because one realizes that they did not get their on their own and they also realize they still need to believe and trust in Him for salvation.

How so...? Why would that need to be if you were perfect or complete...?

Jason0047 said:
To be perfect would be to worship God and Christ as He desires from us. It would be loving God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength; And loving your neighbor. So I am not sure why you would think otherwise.

I agree with the loving part and worship or idolizing or putting on a pedestal, God alone, but, what would be?, or why would you need God "for" anything...? If you are perfect and already complete, lacking nothing, needing nothing (more or anymore)...?

Do we have to be always needing something from God, or always need to be dependent on God (for something, anything), for him to be our God in the way that he wants to our God...?

Or does that come to an end at some point, and if it does, what does that look like...? Do you still need God...?

Peace,

God Bless!

Bible Highlighter · Jul 25, 2017

Dear Neogaia:

I replied to your thread here at CF.

May God bless you.

...

Neogaia777 · Jul 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Your not getting it. To be perfect is to worship, connect, talk with God. It is to deepen your relationship with Him in such a way that He is a part of your every thought, and action.

You are changing the goal posts and redefining the Bible's definiton of perfection. To believe on Jesus's as one's Savior is a part of being perfect. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7 does not say if we walk in darkness he cleanses us from all sin. For example: If somebody saved your life, you would not keep throwing yourself into harms way so that they could saving you.

Again, your not getting it. Being perfect is deepening your relationship with God by praying to Him, worshiping Him, and walking with Him and His good ways. So being perfect involves the loving of God. You cannot separate the loving of God from being perfect. If one is not loving God then they are not perfect.

1 John 2:5 says,
"But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

Which commandments?

Commands like loving God.
If you are loving God then you definitely have need of Him because He is the object of your affection.

Hello?

We should always rely upon the Lord in all things. Yes, we should take action upon what He commands us, but we should think and act with God's guidance in prayer and in reading His Word. This will deepen our relationship with the Lord. To be perfect is to walk with the Lord and to love the Lord in the way that He desires.

Please stop and listen. Loving God in the way that He desires by obeying His commands and focusing on Him as your object of affection is what being perfect is all about.

May God's love and peace be upon you.
And may you please be well.

...

K, Just one question then...?

What about sin...?

God Bless!

Bible Highlighter · Jul 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
K, Just one question then...

What about sin...?

What about it?
I need a few more words in your questoin to give you a proper answer.

...

Neogaia777 · Jul 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
What about it?
I need a few more words in your questoin to give you a proper answer.

...

Well, I just noticed that there was "no mention" of sin in your last post to me...

I guess...? Is being sinless required for any of that you mentioned in your prior post to me? (I know it probably could "help" maybe), but, is it required...?

Does sin get in the way of that...? And, if you can't seem to do away with all sin, but do everything you mentioned in your prior post, is that a kind or type of perfect that the Bible is talking about...? that a sin, like say, smoking cigarettes, cannot or does not have to get in the way of being or achieving...?

God Bless!

1stcenturylady · Jul 25, 2017

Dan61861 said:
This is why blessed is the man whom the Lord does not impute sin.

Hi Dan, can you give me the text you wrote the above from? Thanks. Never mind I found it.

stuart lawrence · Jul 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Well, I just noticed that there was "no mention" of sin in your last post to me...

I guess...? Is being sinless required for any of that you mentioned in your prior post to me? (I know it probably could "help" maybe), but, is it required...?

Does sin get in the way of that...? And, if you can't seem to do away with all sin, but do everything you mentioned in your prior post, is that a kind or type of perfect that the Bible is talking about...? that a sin, like say, smoking cigarettes, cannot or does not have to get in the way of being or achieving...?

God Bless!

I'm afraid some people don't understand a basic biblical fact. Under a law of righteousness you must perfectly obey the law or you cannot be righteous.
Jason admits to, little sins as he puts it. Therefore, he cannot be righteous under the law he lives under.
But no matter what you tell some people, they simply ignore it, and carry on blindly, insisting on doing so

Dan61861 · Jul 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Continued belief in Jesus and His death and resurrection is also necessary for salvation.

May God bless you, too.

...

Is also necessary.... you add to the Gospel Jason. Where is the faith in Christ and what He has truly done for you.

For you, it is Christ and Jason's righteousness that saves. But at least you do give credit to God. The pharisee gave God the credit as well. While the publican pleaded for mercy.

Those who the Lord said...I never knew you did as well. They cast out demons in His name, they did good works in His name, they performed miracles in His name. They offered up their righteousness, Christ looked upon their wickedness as well.

In Ezekial it explains it very well, offer God your righteousness and He will look upon your sins. You can not attain to God's Holiness Jason. Jesus has done that for you, it is a gift from God.

Blessed are the humble
Blessed are the meek
Blessed are those with a contrite heart.

In Christ
Daniel

Dan61861 · Jul 25, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Hi Dan, can you give me the text you wrote the above from? Thanks.

Sure...Romans 4:8

Sorry you can't sleep, I feel for you. My wife has the same problem, but I tell her it's cause she's always pining..over me.

Dan61861 · Jul 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
...

I am not a Calvanist my friend. Would never associate my name with his.

Dan61861 · Jul 25, 2017

Jason read Job again, with fresh eyes. It is all about man being righteous. It ends with God alone being righteous.

Stuart and I talked about this earlier in the thread. How a man seeking his own righteousness leads him deeper into sin. You can actually watch Job do this, until God puts his foot down.

In Christ
Daniel

SBC · Jul 25, 2017

Dan61861 said:
Maybe I worded it wrong. What can we give, that He hasn't first given to us. All is His, He has created all. Anything that I give is giving back to Him what He has given.

In Christ
Daniel

I try to be very specific in speaking for myself, as well paying attention to what others specifically say for themselves.

No doubt; God creates and makes all things. And for that which He creates and makes He "provides" things "for them".

Thus, "yes" I agree God is the "giver".

Thus, by default, God being the supreme "giver" and "provider" ;we become the "taker", AND the "steward" of what He "gives" AND of what we "take".

We have no control over our natural born status, being born in sin.
However we do have control over, "actually" "taking" many things He has "provided".

A man who "takes" God "saving grace"; a provision God has afforded for us to "decide" to take "or not"; IS a man "who" "then" is "giving" to God what He does not "possess".

God does not possess "His inheritance";
God does not "give" us "His inheritance" then "we" "give it back to Him".
God does provide a "WAY" for us to become "His inheritance", which He then "shall" "take" at the appointed time.

Once a man decides to "take" Gods "forgiveness", "soul saving", "new heart" and "spirit quickening" and "His Holy Seed" and "Holy Spirit"....God "secures" His own "inheritance" with His Power to "KEEP FOR EVER HIS INHERITANCE".

And with His Power, He will additionally "TAKE", the body the man has given Him "to take" (redeem).

Point being specifically;
We have no control over our natural birth;
However we have enormous control over what we are willing to "give" God.
A man "who" does not "take" Gods "provided provisions";
Is a man "who" ultimately "does" withhold FROM God, a portion of His inheritance.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Jul 25, 2017

Dan61861 said:
This one you would have to explain, I'm not seeing what you are.

I said, and you want that explained

SBC said: ↑
Point being; It is unbelief in Gods Word. Same as from the beginning of mankind, regardless of what the Word of God is called.

Gods Word ~ Has no beginning or ending.
Gods Word ~ Was from the beginning of mankind "present" and SPEAKING.
God HAD NOT revealed ANY SPECIFIC NAME, to call "His Word" "until" LATER.
Point being: It did not matter "IF" mankind KNEW the name of Gods Word.
Point being: It did/does matter "IF" mankind BELIEVES Gods Word.

John 5:39 Jesus said...search the scriptures; for in them you think you have found eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Click to expand...

Of course. "They" (ie Scriptures) do testify of the Word of God, (whom by now you KNOW, His Name, (& titles). When Jesus said to search the scriptures, they testify of Him; the ONLY Scriptures "written", and able to be Searched; were the OT Scriptures.
Absolutely, they testify of Him. They are Him speaking. He IS the Word of God.

This one you would have to explain

Click to expand...

They scriptures don't save us, they testify that He is the one. They point us to Jesus. He is the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the Father except through me (Christ).

Click to expand...

No. This part I do not have to explain. I said nothing whatsoever about that. Those are your words and had nothing to do with what I said.

God Bless,
SBC

Click to expand...

SBC · Jul 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
The command is basically "always do and be good", and anything short of that, and you've sinned... And, We've all sinned and do continue to, and in, sin that falls short of that, in my opinion...

Everything else and any other truth than that is a false gospel and a lie...

God Bless!

1 John 3:9
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

God Bless
SBC

SBC · Jul 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Do you believe it is possible for certain believers to see the error of their ways?

Of course.

I know David later repented of his sins of adultery and murder.

David is not the topic.

Granted, I do realize there are clouds out there without water; But I cannot possibility know with 100% certainty that they are these clouds.

All clouds have water. That is what makes them a cloud.
Your not being certain, does not change the fact; that clouds exist.

I have to extend the olive branch in love as long as I can; Until God says for me to move on (if they are not getting it).

What you keep attempting to teach, is from your perspective of what you believe.
We have a teacher who knows all things and is the Truth.
Do not be frustrated when a person elects to rely on Jesus as their teacher, and not you.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Jul 25, 2017

SINLESS ~

Sinless is repeatedly mentioned over and over.

Most often it is mentioned when ONE poster is speaking "HIS WORDS" and deceptively trying to pretend they are an other posters position.

NO ONE IS SINLESS - except thee Lord God Almighty!

I have not seen ONE PERSON claim with THEIR OWN WORDS that they are SINLESS.

However repeatedly, I have witnessed, ONE PERSON deceptively making that CLAIM for others.

And repeatedly, I have witnessed, OTHER PEOPLE, in agreement with the deceptive person.

Pay attention please ~ to WHO is making claims with THEIR OWN WORDS ~ and WHO is deceptively making FALSE claims for others!

A man who is FORGIVEN His Sins and CLEANSED of His Sins IS a man who has received FORGIVENESS and CLEANSING of His Sins, BY GOD!

Hello? A SINLESS man, IS a man WHO HAS NEVER HAD SIN. He therefore does not require FORGIVENESS or CLEANSING!

Who HERE has claimed to be "SINLESS" ? No one.

So, WHY, does some people keep making that claim with their words, FOR OTHERS?

And WHY, do some people go along with the deception ?

God Bless
SBC

Bible Highlighter · Jul 25, 2017

Dan61861 said:
I am not a Calvanist my friend. Would never associate my name with his.

Dear Dan:

Please see this thread here for my reply.

Thank you.

....

Bible Highlighter · Jul 25, 2017

SBC said:
SINLESS ~

Sinless is repeatedly mentioned over and over.

Most often it is mentioned when ONE poster is speaking "HIS WORDS" and deceptively trying to pretend they are an other posters position.

NO ONE IS SINLESS - except thee Lord God Almighty!

I have not seen ONE PERSON claim with THEIR OWN WORDS that they are SINLESS.

However repeatedly, I have witnessed, ONE PERSON deceptively making that CLAIM for others.

And repeatedly, I have witnessed, OTHER PEOPLE, in agreement with the deceptive person.

Pay attention please ~ to WHO is making claims with THEIR OWN WORDS ~ and WHO is deceptively making FALSE claims for others!

A man who is FORGIVEN His Sins and CLEANSED of His Sins IS a man who has received FORGIVENESS and CLEANSING of His Sins, BY GOD!

Hello? A SINLESS man, IS a man WHO HAS NEVER HAD SIN. He therefore does not require FORGIVENESS or CLEANSING!

Who HERE has claimed to be "SINLESS" ? No one.

So, WHY, does some people keep making that claim with their words, FOR OTHERS?

And WHY, do some people go along with the deception ?

God Bless
SBC

Dear SBC:

My reply to your post is now in this thread here instead.

Thank you.

May the Lord's peace be upon you.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

...

Bible Highlighter · Jul 25, 2017

SBC said:
Of course.

But your acting as if you know their future and it is without hope.
At least that is the impression I got.
I could be wrong of course.

You said:
David is not the topic.

David is an example of forgiveness. So yes. He is related to this point.

You said:
All clouds have water. That is what makes them a cloud.
Your not being certain, does not change the fact; that clouds exist.

I was referencing the Bible.

"These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots." (Jude 1:12).

You said:
What you keep attempting to teach, is from your perspective of what you believe.
We have a teacher who knows all things and is the Truth.

It sounds like you are boasting.
I hope that is not the case.
For a person's speaking of truth on a topic with God's Word should be able to stand all on it's own - IMO.
But you are free to do whatever you like.

You said:
Do not be frustrated when a person elects to rely on Jesus as their teacher, and not you.

God Bless,
SBC

So you believe in Calvinism?

...

stuart lawrence · Jul 25, 2017

Some of SBC quotes:

2182
Men who are born of God cannot commit sin according to scripture

2192
I am born of God because I am saved and born again. And scripture proclaims one born of God does not sin, cannot commit sin, sinneth not.

2203

SBC responding to me stating:
You believe a person can only be born again if they do not commit sin

SBCs response:
I never said such nonsense. Again more false testimony from you.

I have to say, if anyone thinks they can have a serious conversation with such a person, I would have to wonder how they came to that conclusion

And let's not forget sbcs statement in post 2199:

I do not seek to be justified in Christ, so wrong again. Pauls message does not apply to me.

What more can I say??

Thank goodness an ignore button exists

The Double Message of Eternal Security.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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7 days without God, makes one weak.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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