The Doctrine of "Universalism" (Christian Universalism or Otherwise) True or False? (3)

IamRedeemed said:

Crazy Liz said:

I can understand God giving humans freedom so those who love God would do it freely.

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Good! That is an excellent start!

And after that, eternal torment, right?

After what? Rejecting their opportunity to repent and be reconciled unto God all their lives?
Well, let's see there are two paths, one leads to Heaven, once leads to hell......
If we take the path that leads to hell, and we take no detours offered to us along our
lives that would get us on the path that leads to Heaven, where do you think the
path that leads to hell ends up at?

hmmm... Hell?

BINGO!



God can do anything God wants. But if God claims to love people God is going to torment eternally, we can judge God a liar. If God is going to torment people eternally, then God certainly does not love them.

Where in the Scripture does it say that God is going to torment people at all?

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I don't understand your thinking here.

You mean like Jesus forgave those who killed him?

The only person Jesus granted Salvation to at the cross was one of the thieves.

As far as those who killed him goes.....
Jesus saying "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."
is not the same as granting them Salvation.

There are natural and temporal consequences for sin are there not? There were also people who heard Jesus say that. Perhaps it was even more for the benefit of those who heard it, that upon hearing Him say such a thing, if they didn't believe before, they might repent and believe now. Ever thought of that?
But to read into it that they were granted Salvation, is quite the stretch.

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Don't we need to use our reason to understand scripture?

Well, that depends on what you mean by that. If you mean do we subject the spiritual things of the Lord to the natural humanistic and relativistic ways of man, the answer is no. The Bible tells us to lean NOT unto our own understanding but trust the Lord with all of your heart. (Proverbs 3:5) It also says if any of us lack wisdom to ask of the Lord who will not hold it back from us but will give it to us abundantly. (James 1:5)

The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit will teach us. He will lead and guide us into ALL TRUTH (John 16:13) and that confusion is of the devil, therefore, if we have not the understanding, it is because we didn't ask Him for it. The Bible tells us that God wants to get wisdom and get understanding. (Proverbs 4:5) It is God's will for us to know what His will is regarding these things. That is why He revealed to mankind His written Word.
Of course the humanistic and relativistic natural minds of men cannot comprehend the sovereign ways of God. Are we surprised? God's not.

But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

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IamRedeemed said:

"Jacob I loved, Esau I hated."

God does not love everyone.
In a nutshell, He loves the world, generally speaking.
He loves mankind, generally speaking.
But HE HATES evil doers and those whose feet run to do evil.
He hates liars and He hates those who love death.
It is disgusting to God, abominable and a stench to His nostrils.

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IamRedeemed said:

I "quantify it" by counseling the WHOLE
Word of God, and not just the parts I find
are nice and palatable for me.

By YOU loving your enemies, you may be a vessel that God will use to win your enemy to the cross of Christ WHILE HE HAS BREATH.

Once a person no longer breathes, his fate is sealed by the choices he made while he had breath.

Again, God so loves the world "generally".
But he hates evil. Those that love evil and love death make themselves enemies of God's fit to receive His coming wrath.

Those that love righteousness are the friends of God.

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

There is a very good expounding by John MacArthur that you can begin with part 1 of
here that may help your understanding but moreover you need to begin asking God to show you and give you the understanding.
Arguing what is clearly revealed to us in God's Word is not going to help and it sure isn't going to change the facts. The only thing that can change is your understanding unless you are going to start ripping pages out of the Bible believing somehow that changes anything.

Kerai said:

IamRedeemed said:

"Jacob I loved, Esau I hated."

God does not love everyone.
In a nutshell, He loves the world, generally speaking.
He loves mankind, generally speaking.
But HE HATES evil doers and those whose feet run to do evil.
He hates liars and He hates those who love death.
It is disgusting to God, abominable and a stench to His nostrils.

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Right on, sis!

People opt out of the knowledge that God gives us about His acceptance of those who come to Him as sons and daughters. Those who reject Jesus Chrust are not sons and daughters and have no rights of privilege or protection from Him. Nor do they have rights to live with Him at all. Family is family. We don't have relationship with the children of strangers, do we? Neither does God!

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