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antediluvian means before the Flood, and i think he's referring to how ppl went from living like 800 years to more normal lifespans as we think of them.
I have read something similar. I have also heard that there was no rain before the Flood. If true, this shows that the Flood was a dramatic Earth-changing event. It had to to be, as pointed out earlier, life-spans dropped dramatically.
Michael the Iconographer, they may not be scripture to you, but to many Christian sects across the globe they still are especially the Ethiopian Orthodox. Jesus and many Jews in ancient times referred to these books as scripture, just because our modern day churches disregard them as false doesn't mean their opinions are correct. Then again its doesn't mean my opinion is correct either but I've had several dreams in the past year only supporting my opinion.
its nevertheless useful for showing ideas that were out there in Judaism.
its nevertheless useful for showing ideas that were out there in Judaism.
I will stick with the canonical books of scripture. I am an Orthodox Christian, not a Jew. If the Fathers of the Church did not find the books useful enough to include them in the canon of the OT, then I do not need to worry about them.
Perhaps it would be appropriate to treat them as Jewish commentary, with all that does (or does not) imply.
(Chapter1)
Grudging existence to none therefore, He made all things out of nothing through His own Word, our Lord Jesus Christ and of all these His earthly creatures He reserved especial mercy for the race of men. Upon them, therefore, upon men who, as animals, were essentially impermanent, He bestowed a grace which other creatures lackednamely the impress of His own Image, a share in the reasonable being of the very Word Himself, so that, reflecting Him and themselves becoming reasonable and expressing the Mind of God even as He does, though in limited degree they might continue for ever in the blessed and only true life of the saints in paradise.
(Chapter 1)If they guarded the grace and retained the loveliness of their original innocence, then the life of paradise should be theirs, without sorrow, pain or care, and after it the assurance of immortality in heaven. But if they went astray and became vile, throwing away their birthright of beauty, then they would come under the natural law of death and live no longer in paradise, but, dying outside of it, continue in death and in corruption.
(Chapter 1)By nature, of course, man is mortal, since he was made from nothing; but he bears also the Likeness of Him Who is, and if he preserves that Likeness through constant contemplation, then his nature is deprived of its power and he remains incorrupt.
(Chapter 2)Was He to keep silence before so great a wrong and let men go on being thus deceived and kept in ignorance of Himself? If so, what was the use of having made them in His own Image originally? It would surely have been better for them always to have been brutes, rather than to revert to that condition when once they had shared the nature of the Word. Again, things being as they were, what was the use of their ever having had the knowledge of God? Surely it would have been better for God never to have bestowed it, than that men should subsequently be found unworthy to receive it.
(Chapter 4)We have seen that to change the corruptible to incorruption was proper to none other than the Savior Himself, Who in the beginning made all things out of nothing; that only the Image of the Father could re-create the likeness of the Image in men, that none save our Lord Jesus Christ could give to mortals immortality, and that only the Word Who orders all things and is alone the Father's true and sole-begotten Son could teach men about Him and abolish the worship of idols
(Chapter 4)The death of men under ordinary circumstances is the result of their natural weakness. They are essentially impermanent, so after a time they fall ill and when worn out they die.
well i agree that your interpretation is easy to get out of St. Athanasius, but based on the quotes you have given i dont think he is necessarily teaching that animals have always been mortal. just as man is mortal by nature but yet was not infected with death from the beginning, the same can be true of animals. true, he connects the possibility for incorruption in man to the image of God, which the animals do not have, but i don't think that what he says excludes the interpretation that the rest of creation is incorrupt by virtue of its connection to the fate of man, as so many other Fathers teach, as creation is seen as man's kingdom and thus connected to his fate. i can only assume that St. Athanasius is familiar with St. Paul's teaching that the creation was subject to futility through man, and creation will be restored through man, so i would think he would have to seen some kind of change in creation due to man's sin, but he doesnt address that in the quotes you provided, so its hard to say what he saw as the change. and i know he at some point references the Wisdom of Solomon 1-2 which tells us that God does not desire the death of anything living, not just man. without further evidence, i can only assume that he teaches in harmony with Saints such as John Chrysostom, Basil the Great, etc.
true, there are more important things than how long the days were, but this thread is about animal death specifically. and although it may not be important for you and your spiritual path, that doesnt mean its not important for anyone.
You will find among the fathers there are often varying opinions. Sometimes there is a majority and a minority opinion. But in the end they are just opinions and holding one or the other makes you neither more or less Orthodox.
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