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I agree in that in heresy one’s mind is wounded, yet the Church remains to preach correction. In schism, one has said in his heart that he is to rise up against the body of Christ Himself. We have the example of David, upon whose throne Our Lord now sits, that never was a man more justified in schism as well as having motive and opportunity, yet he could not bring himself to lift his hand against the Lord’s anointed.
If David could not do it, who are you o man to lift his hand to tear the body of Christ asunder?
The word you is a general term and not directed @theLiturgist. We all need to self reflect on this
AmenI am opposed to schism and a proponent of ecumenical reconciliation, but homosexuality is a deal-breaker for me as it is incompatible with Orthodox doctrine on human sexuality.
As it would be a deal breaker for me if it were so, but God cannot bless sin, neither can the Church. The fact that there are tares in God’s garden does not give us the right to abandon it and start another after our own likeness.I am opposed to schism and a proponent of ecumenical reconciliation, but homosexuality is a deal-breaker for me as it is incompatible with Orthodox doctrine on human sexuality.
As it would be a deal breaker for me if it were so, but God cannot bless sin, neither can the Church. The fact that there are tares in God’s garden does not give us the right to abandon it and start another after our own likeness.
FS is already being walked back as the words of a man, not an ex cathedra statement. I will stay in the Church and see what the Holy Spirit does with this. I do not snub my nose at Him and leave
True but it still does not justify schismIts not being walked back fast or hard enough. The fact that it was even issued is an ecclesiastical disaster.
True but it still does not justify schism
Well that will only happen if the schismatic mind undergoes repentance. Yes it is a humiliating experience and I argued ever more strongly that the Church had to compromise and meet me in the middle or had to come to me and explain their positionI am not advocating for schism. My prayer is for the healing of schisms and for ecumenical reconciliation according to the faith of the early church as decided by the ecumenical councils.
2) It is inappropriate for the Western Journal to describe the church's theology as "capitulation to secular forces".
The Episcopal Church went through more than 40 years of careful theological discernment in coming to its present position. Feel free to disagree with the church (as I know most CF readers will!), but the process was not some mindless capitulation. It involved many years of careful study and prayer.
Do ACNA and Continuing Anglican churches use the Episcopal Church shield as their logo?
They're welcome to, I guess, but it seems that it would lead to confusion for visitors who are looking for churches that are/are not inclusive of women or gay people.
I don’t know about the ACNA, but the Continuing Anglicans have often used the shield and the flag, and minor variants thereof.
ACNA and the Continuing Anglican churches are inclusive of women and of repentant and celibate persons who have struggled with adhering to Scriptural and Patristic sexual morality. Indeed ACNA even has female priests.
Thus the Episcopal Shield, for the time being at least, is inclusive of traditional Christians
It's no big deal. The C of E allowed divorce in 1857, contraception in 1930, and remarriage of divorced persons during the lifetime of the other spouse in - I think - 2002.Last week, in a truly devastatingly tragic event, the worst thing to happen in the Church of England in many years, they voted to begin trial blessing services for homosexual marriages, which are of course directly contrary to scripture. In retrospect, it is remarkable that the C of E held out as long as it did, and I suspect part of that may have been due to some influence or respect for HM Queen Elisabeth II, Memory Eternal, and with her having departed, no longer the nominal leader of the Church of England, a subject she might have been deeply opposed to might have proceeded. Or it could be the result of other changes.
At any rate, this is extremely depressing, as it brings the C of E into line with the same failed condition we see in the Episcopal Church USA, the Scottish Episcopal Church, the Church of Ireland, and the Anglican Church of Canada, and the Anglican Church of New Zealand, with the exception of the very conservative Maori portion of that church where our friend @Carl Emerson worships.
This leaves, as far as I am aware, only the Anglican Church in Wales and some parts of the Anglican Church in Australia, and the aforementioned Maori church, and also as far as I am aware, the Anglican Church in Hong Kong, as hold outs among the developed English speaking world that are members of the Anglican Communion.
It also increases greatly the risk of a schism with more conservative churches in Africa, Asia and South America, such as the Anglican Province of the Southern Cone, the Church of Ghana, the Church of South India and the Mar Thoma Syrian Church.
On the bright side, there remain a large number of conservative, traditional Anglicans in the Church of England, and thus far these parishes have been allowed to operate even in the most liberal dioceses without much interference. In particular, in the Diocese of London, there is a great deal of tolerance for conservative churches, both of the low church Evangelical variety and the high church Anglo Catholic variety (the former being exemplified by Holy Trinity Brompton and the latter by St. Magnus the Martyr, All Saints Margaret Street and St. Bartholomew the Great. London is also home to “Royal Peculiars” under the direct control of the monarch, including Westminster Abbey, the Chapel of the Savoy, and the Temple, and these churches preserve a very traditional form of Anglican worship, with boys’ choirs (as well as a very excellent girls’ choir at the Temple), and use of services from the Book of Common Prayer (unfortunately the 1662 version, since the superior 1928 version was infamously blocked by Parliament, although large portions of it survive in Common Worship, which is the extremely flexible liturgical system introduced by the C of E in recent years.
This will also severely damage ecumenical relationships between all Anglican churches and various other churches including the persecuted churches of the Middle East and Ukraine, such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic and Ukrainian Orthodox churches, and the Maronite, Chaldean, Assyrian, Coptic, Armenian and Ethiopian churches.
Still, this is desperately sad news, news long expected but nonetheless difficult to receive with equanymity.
Yup.It has no value whatsoever. It is worthless trash.
It's no big deal. The C of E allowed divorce in 1857, contraception in 1930, and remarriage of divorced persons during the lifetime of the other spouse in - I think - 2002.
So allowing gay "marriages" is a logical further step. The C of E began with the lust of a king who put away his lawful wife so he could commit adultery with less oppsition; so it might as well allow same-sex "marriage".
I thought that the ACNA
The ACNA has thus far made the bishopric a line in the sand and kept it exclusive to males. Women's ordination to other offices of the ministry is handled by diocesan canon law. The exception would be the Reformed Episcopal Church, which operates as an independent church at times, as dioceses at other times, and as a constituent of ACNA when it suits them.I thought that the ACNA and Continuing Anglican churches varied in whether they ordain women as bishops, priests, and deacons.
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