The Christian case for backing Israel

Let's face it. Israel isn't the gang that couldn't shoot straight. They have the most sophisticated spy network in the world.
That spy network notified them an attack was imminent in October.
But for some reason Netanyahu chooses genocide over surgical strikes.

JimR-OCDS said:

So, what should Israel's response be to what happened to them on October 7, 2023?

Heck, what should the allied response have been toward Germany in 1941? Should Americans
have protested that they were for the German people, just not the Nazis?

Why are there no protests against Iran sending weapons to Hamas and Hezbollah?

War is bad, but Israel has no choice but to defeat Hamas and Hezbollah even when they set up
in schools and hospitals.

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What should Israel response be to Oct 7th? Does Israel have the right to defend it self is an important question and that answer is yes. However I don't believe that Israel tactics were the correct way of going about it. There are a few inherent flaws in just relying heavily on airstrikes. Bombs don't distinguish between innocent and guilty. Bombs don't distinguish between young and old. Bombs don't distinguish between man or women. Bombs will kill and destroy and mayhem anything caught in its wake. Israel should not have relied heavily on airstrike but more on ground forces.

Here is what Israel is doing. They are killing the population and in so doing so giving them every reason in the world to pick up a gun and to fight. If some one is killing you and wiping out your entire family and your going to die a rational person would fight back. Israel massive reliance on airstrikes is only fueling Hamas with man power. Thus turning Gaza in to Israel own version of Vietnam. This is going to have a devastating effect on Israel economy which is already taken a hit. So again I say Israel should have relied more on ground troops then airstrikes.

Second they should have heavily controlled their military force in terms of what soldiers were posting on social media. There so many videos of IDF soldiers dehumanizing and degrading the Palestine people. They are ransacking there already destroyed homes and mocking them and posting it on social media. This is not helping Israel cause. So when ask what Israel response should have been the answer is not what we are see.

There deeper issue about Oct 7th. See when you talk about Oct 7th you think that's were it all started. Yet in 2023 prior to Oct 7th 293 Palestine in West Bank were killed by IDF and Jewish settlers. These deaths never made a ripple effect across the media. Let me ask you a question. What would the US do if 293 Americans were killed by the Mexican army or the Canadian army (not saying it would happen just a hypothetical). We would probably attack Mexico. Now we wouldn't go as far as what Hamas did but still we would have attacked Israel. Hamas actions were wrong but there are real grievances; real atrocities and things Israel has done that has provoked the Palestine. The fact that the world has allowed Israel to do these things and get away with it and not defend the Palestine people has allowed groups like Hamas to take power and shape.

Every one wants to make this out like Israel good and Hamas is evil. The truth is that there is wrong being done by both sides. It has become this never ending escalating conflict. One of the major reasons why we will never see peace is because Israel right now is brutalizing and oppressing the Palestine people. This is what fuels the conflict. I could give you a whole laundry list of documents and videos to prove all the terrible things Israel has done to the Palestine's if you want.
As for why no one is protesting against Iran sending weapons to Hamas or Hezbollah? Well for starters we have absolutely no control over that. Iran is not gone give a crap about Western people protesting. Most countries around the world already have sanctions against Iran as is. We however can control what money and weapons we send to Israel. Israel has made it very clear they don't give a crap about what we think or say. They want our weapons and money and then for us to just let them do whatever they want. That's not how this works. To be honest we have so many problems here at home that we need to stop focusing on other nations and start fixing the problems here at home. If Israel wants to rain fire and death on Gaza it should not be done with Tax payer money.

Your right war is bad and Israel has to respond to Hamas and Hezbollah. However they do have a choice in how they respond to those threats. I don't think you truly grasp the severity of what Israel is doing right now and how bad it really is. You think only 40k Palestine have died. This is not what experts are predicting. They are saying that numbers is probably is very very low compared to the actual death toll. The number they are giving if the war ended today is more like 200k to 500k. The reason why is because there factors that are not being taken in to account. They aren't account for the number Palestine who died from lack of medical treatment for things like cancer or liver disease. There not account for the fact that the hospitals have been completely overwhelmed and don't have the man power to accurately account for the number of dead brought in. It doesn't account for the families who have been forced to bury their loved ones were every they can dig a whole. It doesn't account for all those who are buried under rubble. These are just a few things not being accounted for. The bottom line is this war should have relied more heavily on ground forces the air strikes.

Also Israel has never shown real evidence or proof that any command post or military forces have been hiding in schools or hospitals. We seen videos of them finding weapons and stuff but those could have been planted by the IDF. IDF has been caught lying about things before so it makes it hard to just take their word for things. Also it doesn't help the IDF doesn't allow independent journalist in to Gaza which would allow for way more transparency then there is.

JimR-OCDS said:

They invaded Israel and slaughtered 1300, but also raped and took hostages, which the IDF just learned that a group of
Jewish hostages were in fact murdered. All males of course as the young females are used for sexual pleasure and the desire
to impregnate them.

Should Israel have only killed 1300 people of Gaza in response?

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Yes and did you know that prior to Oct 7th in 2023 IDF and Jewish settlers killed 293 Palestine for little to no reason. This is not the only time this has happen. There Nemours examples of IDF killing Palestine and getting away with it. Go look up March of Return.

Your right they did kill and took hostages and committed un speak able evil and their is no excuse for that. However IDF routinely takes Palestine and put them in a military prison. They hold them with out charges often times and if they do get a trial there is no transparency. Often times Palestine face abuse, torture, neglect and SA (as evident by the incident came to light a few weeks ago. If they did it that time how many other times did they do it.). Every year between 500 to 700 Palestine children are arrested and thrown in military prison. They to are often held with out charges and suffer the same things as the adults. These not terrorist or armed combatants. Often times these just Palestine who done nothing wrong or very little wrong.

So everything your accusing Hamas of doing Israel is equally guilty of and has gotten away with it. I'm not arguing that Hamas is innocent and that they aren't evil. I'm saying that two wrongs don't make a right. That is exactly what is going on here and has been going on for decades.

mrunk said:

One of the major reasons why we will never see peace is because Israel right now is brutalizing and oppressing the Palestine people. This is what fuels the conflict.

Also Israel has never shown real evidence or proof that any command post or military forces have been hiding in schools or hospitals. We seen videos of them finding weapons and stuff but those could have been planted by the IDF. IDF has been caught lying about things before so it makes it hard to just take their word for things.

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The only reason is that they HATE Jews and Israel. that fuels the conflict. they teach it to their children in their schools. It is part of their religion. There is plenty of evidence, lots of videos. This is not even debatable.

JimR-OCDS said:

They invaded Israel and slaughtered 1300, but also raped and took hostages, which the IDF just learned that a group of
Jewish hostages were in fact murdered. All males of course as the young females are used for sexual pleasure and the desire
to impregnate them.

Should Israel have only killed 1300 people of Gaza in response?

Click to expand...

and at least 5 hostages are US citizens!!!

Michie said:

The Bible vividly portrays Israel as a central theme in God's plan for humanity. It is woven historically through the covenant of Abraham to launch a nation, maintained through the promises given to King David and his ancestors, and ultimately consummated in redemption through Jesus Christ, the Messiah.

Today, millions of Protestants and Catholics find the biblical significance of Israel compelling and enduring, influencing their perspectives and steadfast support for the nation.

One of the most significant sources of controversy and division in recent times has been the debate over distinguishing between supporting Israel as a nation and supporting the Jewish people as God's chosen ones. This debate has led to considerable confusion and has attracted significant attention.

However, it's essential to recognize that the two are deeply intertwined. Our support should be approached from a spiritual perspective, not merely as a political issue.

But what does it mean to say we support Israel in today’s geo-political climate?

Continued below.

The Christian case for backing Israel

What does it mean to say we support Israel in today s geo-political climate

www.christianpost.com

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Jesus's the end of the 70 weeks of Daniel to (expiate original sin)/(get eternal life). So it isn't a religion question for me, but why the left activists are for Hamas!...So I'm for Israel. It seems a war between the left activists and christians/west. I'm in

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

The only reason is that they HATE Jews and Israel. that fuels the conflict. they teach it to their children in their schools. It is part of their religion. There is plenty of evidence, lots of videos. This is not even debatable.

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Yes but why do they hate the Jews? People don't hate for no reason. There is always a rhyme and reason for hate. Also the hate is not all one sided. I can show you just as much evidence that Israelis teach their children to hate Palestine. It's not all one side. You can find tons of videos that show case how much hatred for Palestine exist in Israeli culture.

The reason why their is so much anger and hatred is because these people have been forced off the lands and homes for 75 years. They have been brutalized and oppressed. I can show you plenty of evidence of this. There so many videos and documentary show casing IDF and Jewish settlers brutality and oppression its not even remotely funny. It just doesn't get shown on mainstream media. You can find them through youtube and internet Archives. Go to Breaking the Silence and listen to the EX-IDF soldiers who openly talk about the brutality and oppression the horrible things they did to Palestine or witnessed other soldiers or Jewish settlers commit. Its that brutality that leads to anger and hate and fuels it.

There so many videos I've seen were IDF and Jewish settlers have done that I would sit and cry. Israel treats all Palestine the same...as terrorist. Doesn't matter your age or your gender if your Palestine your automatically assumed to be a terrorist and can be arrested for nothing or for very little reasons. Once arrested you can be held with out charges. Even if you get a trial its a closed trial to the public; there is no transparency. Palestine who are arrested face abuse, torture, neglect even SA. Why is that we have no problem going after Hamas for doing that but when Israel does and we know there doing it they get away with it. They got caught red handed doing it and world especially the US turns and looks the other way. No one even stops and thinks well if this happen once how many other times could this have happen. Because no one cares. Israeli lives matter far more then Palestine lives. Even when the story broke and went world wide about the 10 soldiers arrested for what they did. Even when Israelis stormed the prison demanding the soldiers be released. Even when you have the vast majority of Israel public saying that what the soldiers did was justified. People like you will continue to defend Israel. This is why there hate and anger towards the US and Israelis by the Palestine. Because they are brutalized and oppressed and the world shows the hold no value on Palestine lives.

Their religion is no different he Christianity even if its not true. The bible has many verse in that can be used to justify horrible things. Over the past 2,000 years people have used the bible to justify doing horrible things. Let me give you an example what I'm talking about.

"“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. " some could pull that verse out and use it to justify going to war or harming non christians. Only the problem is they are taking the verse out of context. When Jesus said he did not come to bring peace but the sword. He was talking about how believers would be separated from their families and friends because they don't believe. A father might turn on his daughter upon hearing she a Christian and kick her out of his home. This is what he talking about and this just one examples. I could give way better examples.

This is what religious extremist do. The take the Quran and they take verse and use them to fit their own ideology. However they don't ready it in its full context. Any and all religious text can be bent and twisted to fit ones own warmed ideology. Christians are just as guilty of this. What you think the Catholic Church got were it is by being godly; no they didn't. They murder and tortured and stole and brutalized and oppress the people across Europe for their own power and greed. Christians have used the bible to justify slavery right here in the US. There was time when Christians persecuted people were Gay or Lesbians and tried to have laws created that would put them behind bars.

Even in recent years we seen groups like West Baptist Bro Church rise up and take the bible and bend it and twist it to fit their own ideology and scary part is that they can use the Bible to justify their beliefs. You Evangelical like John Hagee who have a lot of influence in political arena who want to kick start the return of the Messiah even if it means millions of people have to die. You have Evangelical groups who arming themselves to the teeth at this very moment because they believe Jesus will return soon and will be carrying a machine gun. Don't believe me go watch a documentary called Pray for Armageddon. John Hagee scares the living crap out of me far more then any terrorist group does because the right word in the right ear he could kick start Armageddon. All so the Jesus can return like God is going to be on our time table.

I get I'm a new Christian I will tell you I have a lot to learn. However I been studying the middle east sense Oct 7th. Looking at all sides of this conflict. I'm telling you Israel is no more the good guys then Hamas is. The political leaders in that region have done nothing but sell out their own people and create a region of hate and fear. I have a hard time with any Christian who can say they love and follow Jesus but then Support Israel is they reign living hell down on Gaza. Even if by some chance I was will to concede and say your right and Israel is justified in no shape or form could I ever see Jesus being in favor of what Israel is doing. Jesus would absolutely condemn Israel. I know I have a lot to learn but correct me if I'm wrong as Christians we should be the ambassadors of peace and to lead people to Jesus. We should never support war.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God" Matthew 5:9. The Beatitudes are supposed to be a guide on not only how find Jesus but how to follow him. As Christians aren't we supposed to advocate for peace not war. How can you advocate for peace while supporting Israel relentless airstrikes? How can you love and show patience for your enemy if your actively trying to destroy them or supporting their destruction.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you and it comes from a year of just doing nothing but studying this conflict trying to understand its not a one sided conflict were Israel is the victim and Hamas are the bad guys. The fact is both sides are guilty of a lot of doing a lot of terrible things to one another. Were talking real atrocities. Only Israel is not only allowed to get away with it they get the backing of the US and weapons and money to commit these terrible crimes.

mrunk said:

Yes but why do they hate the Jews? People don't hate for no reason. There is always a rhyme and reason for hate. Also the hate is not all one sided. I can show you just as much evidence that Israelis teach their children to hate Palestine. It's not all one side. You can find tons of videos that show case how much hatred for Palestine exist in Israeli culture.

The reason why their is so much anger and hatred is because these people have been forced off the lands and homes for 75 years. They have been brutalized and oppressed. I can show you plenty of evidence of this. There so many videos and documentary show casing IDF and Jewish settlers brutality and oppression its not even remotely funny. It just doesn't get shown on mainstream media. You can find them through youtube and internet Archives. Go to Breaking the Silence and listen to the EX-IDF soldiers who openly talk about the brutality and oppression the horrible things they did to Palestine or witnessed other soldiers or Jewish settlers commit. Its that brutality that leads to anger and hate and fuels it.

There so many videos I've seen were IDF and Jewish settlers have done that I would sit and cry. Israel treats all Palestine the same...as terrorist. Doesn't matter your age or your gender if your Palestine your automatically assumed to be a terrorist and can be arrested for nothing or for very little reasons. Once arrested you can be held with out charges. Even if you get a trial its a closed trial to the public; there is no transparency. Palestine who are arrested face abuse, torture, neglect even SA. Why is that we have no problem going after Hamas for doing that but when Israel does and we know there doing it they get away with it. They got caught red handed doing it and world especially the US turns and looks the other way. No one even stops and thinks well if this happen once how many other times could this have happen. Because no one cares. Israeli lives matter far more then Palestine lives. Even when the story broke and went world wide about the 10 soldiers arrested for what they did. Even when Israelis stormed the prison demanding the soldiers be released. Even when you have the vast majority of Israel public saying that what the soldiers did was justified. People like you will continue to defend Israel. This is why there hate and anger towards the US and Israelis by the Palestine. Because they are brutalized and oppressed and the world shows the hold no value on Palestine lives.

Their religion is no different he Christianity even if its not true. The bible has many verse in that can be used to justify horrible things. Over the past 2,000 years people have used the bible to justify doing horrible things. Let me give you an example what I'm talking about.

"“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. " some could pull that verse out and use it to justify going to war or harming non christians. Only the problem is they are taking the verse out of context. When Jesus said he did not come to bring peace but the sword. He was talking about how believers would be separated from their families and friends because they don't believe. A father might turn on his daughter upon hearing she a Christian and kick her out of his home. This is what he talking about and this just one examples. I could give way better examples.

This is what religious extremist do. The take the Quran and they take verse and use them to fit their own ideology. However they don't ready it in its full context. Any and all religious text can be bent and twisted to fit ones own warmed ideology. Christians are just as guilty of this. What you think the Catholic Church got were it is by being godly; no they didn't. They murder and tortured and stole and brutalized and oppress the people across Europe for their own power and greed. Christians have used the bible to justify slavery right here in the US. There was time when Christians persecuted people were Gay or Lesbians and tried to have laws created that would put them behind bars.

Even in recent years we seen groups like West Baptist Bro Church rise up and take the bible and bend it and twist it to fit their own ideology and scary part is that they can use the Bible to justify their beliefs. You Evangelical like John Hagee who have a lot of influence in political arena who want to kick start the return of the Messiah even if it means millions of people have to die. You have Evangelical groups who arming themselves to the teeth at this very moment because they believe Jesus will return soon and will be carrying a machine gun. Don't believe me go watch a documentary called Pray for Armageddon. John Hagee scares the living crap out of me far more then any terrorist group does because the right word in the right ear he could kick start Armageddon. All so the Jesus can return like God is going to be on our time table.

I get I'm a new Christian I will tell you I have a lot to learn. However I been studying the middle east sense Oct 7th. Looking at all sides of this conflict. I'm telling you Israel is no more the good guys then Hamas is. The political leaders in that region have done nothing but sell out their own people and create a region of hate and fear. I have a hard time with any Christian who can say they love and follow Jesus but then Support Israel is they reign living hell down on Gaza. Even if by some chance I was will to concede and say your right and Israel is justified in no shape or form could I ever see Jesus being in favor of what Israel is doing. Jesus would absolutely condemn Israel. I know I have a lot to learn but correct me if I'm wrong as Christians we should be the ambassadors of peace and to lead people to Jesus. We should never support war.

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I never said Israel was totally innocent. Of course both sides have done bad things. However, if you are for the palestinian people then you should want Hamas gone. None of this will get better until Hamas is gone. They hate Jews because they are taught to and it is part of their religion. Do many Jews hate them, yes, of course they do. You would too if you had missiles shot at you on a daily basis. You do know that Gaza was a virtual paradise under Israeli control and when given to the PLO, it became a cesspool and haven for terrorists. Hamas steals food and money meant for their own people. They fire rockets from schools and hospitals and use their own people as human shields. These type of people have no morals and love death more than life. They have a culture of death. You can not have peace with people like that. It has to be like Nazi Germany and Japan in WW2. You need to erase that culture and start over. We are now friends with Germany and Japan. BTW, many arabs live and work IN Israel and have no problems. Arabs are part of the Knesset. How many Jews live and work in Gaza? Why won't any other country take them in? IMO you have much more research to do...

I've heard it said the biggest mistake Israel made was in 1947 when they didn’t declare all the land "from the river to the sea" to be Israel. But they did things legally instead.

As far as I'm concerned, any land under Israeli control after another war can be legitimately annexed to Israel. That's how European borders have changed for centuries.

The UN approved two-state solution already exists. An arab transjordanian state, and a Jewish majority multi-ethnic state to the West of the river.

I understand the support for the Palestinians. Christ was always on the side of the underdog, and they seem a repressed minority. I think there is a Christian case to stand with the Palestinian people. But not with Hamas. And not against the Jewish people.

My first loyalty is with our Christian brothers and sisters, who aren’t exactly thriving, though seem to be doing better in Israel than in Gaza and Judea & Samaria. I stand with Israel, but I'm allowed to be concerned about some of the things I'm hearing. And I pray for peace in Jerusalem, and in Gaza, in Hebron, in Jericho, in Bethlehem. Peace in Lebanon, in Syria, in Jordan. Peace in Iraq, in Kurdistan, in Yemen. And so on.

I think this is an informed Christian position. And I still have much to learn.

Am Yisrael chai.

mrunk said:

Yes but why do they hate the Jews? People don't hate for no reason. There is always a rhyme and reason for hate. Also the hate is not all one sided. I can show you just as much evidence that Israelis teach their children to hate Palestine. It's not all one side. You can find tons of videos that show case how much hatred for Palestine exist in Israeli culture.

The reason why their is so much anger and hatred is because these people have been forced off the lands and homes for 75 years.

Click to expand...