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The captivity of captivity.

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Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
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Because of this, he says: "Ascending on high, he took captivity itself captive; he gave gifts to men."
(Ephesians 4:8)

What does it mean to take captivity captive?
He led captivity captive.[1] St. Jerome and others expound these words of Christ’s delivering the pious souls that had died before his ascension, and which were detained in a place of rest which is called Limbus Patrum [i.e. Limbo of the Fathers; sometimes called Paradise (Luk 23:43), Abraham‘ bosom (Luk 16:22), or Prison (1Pe 3:19)]. ---

He gave gifts to men. Having delivered men from the captivity of sin, he bestowed upon them his gifts and graces. (Witham) ---

Wherefore he, David, in Psalm 68. makes use of these words, in order to shew that these gifts were gratuitous, and that no person had a right to complain that another had received more: after this the apostle proceeds to shew that Christ even descended to the lower parts of the earth, in order to teach us humility; whence he concludes that we ought to be humble and live in union with our brethren, which is the chief subject of the present chapter. (Tirinus)
 
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RandyPNW

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I think you just did a more than adequate job of explaining it yourself. But my version reads like this....

This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”

So for me the emphasis is on the fact we had been captured, or had been made captives, like enemies of God. So we are perhaps part of a procession of captivity, being made gifts to God or perhaps giving gifts to God as a conquered enemy.

Paul seems to be suggesting that having been made gifts for Christ we are now designated for special purposes, equipped with gifts from God to serve Him.

I could be wrong, though. It's a very good question. And your view may be perfectly well said?
 
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RandyPNW

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I've read this in a certain way for so long, having been taught by others, that I find it difficult to take a stand on what it really means to me! The image seems to be of Israel taking captives from among the Gentiles and taking from them gifts to serve their people.

But Paul is applying this to us as Christians, who were taken captive from our pagan lives and made to give gifts to our conquerer, the Lord Himself. Help me somebody!

Right now, I think that it means we were captured in order to serve the Lord. And so we were made to bring gifts to the Lord, being equipped with "Gifts of the Spirit?"

For example, Daniel brought grace to Babylon as a captive Hebrew. He was able to bring wisdom and the ability to interpret dreams for the King of Babylon. As Christians we each have been given grace to serve the Lord and His People in some way. It may be via acts of kindnesss, through wisdom, or by supernatural demonstrations of God's power in our lives.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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It seems no exceptional thing to take captives captive, but it is truly exceptional to take captivity captive; it is akin to death being swallowed up in victory. Translators seem to be divided on what to do, NRSV, KJV, RV, ASV, and many others take the idea of captivity being taken captive while NIV, CSB, RSV, and many others take captives captive. The context is where we need to go for a hint about what saint Paul intended.
I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all. But each of us was given grace according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore it is said, 'When he ascended on high he made captivity itself a captive; he gave gifts to his people.' (When it says, 'He ascended', what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all things.) The gifts he gave were that some would be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to maturity, to the measure of the full stature of Christ. We must no longer be children, tossed to and fro and blown about by every wind of doctrine, by people's trickery, by their craftiness in deceitful scheming. But speaking the truth in love, we must grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and knitted together by every ligament with which it is equipped, as each part is working properly, promotes the body's growth in building itself up in love.​
(Ephesians 4:1-16)
It could go either way, I think. I prefer the idea that captivity itself is made captive to Christ.
 
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RandyPNW

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I think Paul is using a pretty common example of a nation taking captives in war to apply to our being converted by Christ from paganism to Christianity. Therefore, "taking captivity captive" seems to be the meaning, if not the wording. I'm not great on the biblical languages--this would have to be a question for my brother. He always avoids the theology to focus on the actual language in order to give a proper reading. But I always focus on theology first, which is probably backwards from the way it should be.
 
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Clare73

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Xeno.of.athens said:
Because of this, he says: "Ascending on high, he took captivity itself captive; he gave gifts to men."
(Ephesians 4:8)

What does it mean to take captivity captive?
Click to expand...
I see it as Christ taking captive the spiritual forces which held us captive.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Clare73 said:
I see it as Christ taking captive the spiritual forces which held us captive.
Click to expand...
Do you think it is about us?

I prefer to think of "he made captivity itself a captive" as about removing captivity altogether, like death being swallowed up in victory.
 
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Clare73

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Xeno.of.athens said:
Do you think it is about us?

I prefer to think of "he made captivity itself a captive" as about removing captivity altogether, like death being swallowed up in victory.
Click to expand...
I agree with that also.
 
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Dan Perez

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For one , and how HIGH really mean ?

John 3:13 says NO ONE has ascended up to heaven !!

# 2 There is a Greek word for PARADISE // PARAEISOS !! There is no Greek word for 3:13 LIMBO !!

# 3 Eph 4:8 is a quote from Psa 68:18 !!

have to go !!

dan p
 
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Hawkins

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It seems to me that it's more of a war practice back in David's days. The king is at a high place while the warriors sending a row of captured foes as gifts. Then the king may reward the warriors accordingly.

So the king is more like leading the row of captive, received as gifts. To further eleborate who the captured foes are, they are the ones who captured the Jews before. So the sentence becomes leading the row of captives who ever kept the Jews captive.

So led the captives = led the captivity captive. Both are equivalent. The meaning remains the same with or without captivity.

To further elaborate the warriors, they include those who ever rebelled the king. The king accepts their captured foes as gifts, and reward them as well. In this sense, when it is said that receiving gift from men, if refers to accepting the captured foes as gifts from the warriors. When it is said that giving gift to men, it refers to rewarding gifts to the warriors.

In NT then, we are the warriors ever being captured, and ever rebelled but fought a fight of faith for our King. But we have nothing to offer as gifts to the King, it's actually all our King's own effort. So we should skip the part and describe how the King would reward us for our fight of faith.
 
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