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The best evidence for Creationism

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Davian

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Why doesn't it count?
The bible isn't evidence, it needs to *be* evidenced, lol.
Do you have the names of those men and the witnesses?
presupposition isn't evidence. that your personal assumptions.
Exactly. That why your presuppositions are dismissed.
By who? a judge who committed Judicial Activism.
Too bad.
And again, it doesn't disprove Fine Tuning. The earth is so Fine Tuned that 1 little mistake, 1 hair away and life is over. The weak anthopic principle is an assumption.
And enough to dismiss your argument.
I do not accept your premise. You have yet to establish the existence of this 'commander'.
1)Infinite regression is impossible, the universe has a beginning. most scientist, will agree. there is no denial to that.

if you object, provide evidence.
Prove to me the universe has not always existed. Something more than your opinion.
If the universe always existed, no 'uncaused cause' required.
3) 1. Jesus Christ Death and Resurrection shows that God exist.

If you object to that, provide evidence, not presupposition/assumptions.
As you provided no support to the resurrection actually happening, there is nothing to counter. The burden of evidence rests with you. Dismissed.
"God" explains nothing. All you have done is used a mystery to attempt to explain a mystery.
Where do you see design? I don't see any. There may be the *appearance* of design, but that would not require a creator.
4.Fine Tuning, if you object to that then provide evidence against it, not assumptions.
see above.
5. The Bible and extra Biblical sources proves, God exist.

if you object to that, provide evidence against The Bible, not assumptions/presupposition.
That the bible proves anything *is* presupposition. It proves nothing.
Got for it. While you are at it, ask why the sky is seven. Or the boiling point of blue. Demand an answer! Evidence!
also, you have yet to show how my other argument are weak, provide proof why not presupposition/assumptions/opinions.
Now you are not even coherent.
Actually it does, by having no evidence for it, shows that they aren't "atheist", and that "atheism" doesn't exist. if it was real, they would without sweat answer the question, but they cannot, because "atheism" doesn't exist.
Yet it does. How do you explain that?
I take your assumption and you putting words in my mouth as an insult. I'll say it again, where did I say "atheist"?
The playing with words does not excuse your behaviour. From where do you get your morals?
I'll say it again because it is the truth, "atheism"(nonsensical claim, nonsensical claim of "lack" of belief, whichever definition) is a clown and it did not know it. where is any individual insulted?
I am. Do you think insulting others wins arguments?
in fact, I showed sympathy for "atheist"'s in post #574, I wrote
so do not put words in my mouth and hear what you want to hear.
Whatever.
Post #575
Where are you mentioned?
Then why put it in a post to me?
I gave the evidence that shows, God exist. that's why I can say, God exist, because the evidence backs that up.
No, it is only presupposition, which you yourself said does not count.
"atheism" is not a neutral claim, the "atheist" define it as a ""lack" of belief". "lack" of belief does not exist, if it did there would be evidence to support a "lack" of belief. there is none.
Now who is trying to put words in others' mouths? I guess its okay since you are doing it? Atheism is the neutral postion, and requires no evidential support.
"atheism" does not exist.
A plea of desperation. Definitions of words are descriptive, not proscriptive. You are SOL on this one.
Testable Evidence Supports a Cosmic Intelligent Designer
<deleted cut-and-paste>
Do you read what you cut and paste into this thread? Do you know what falsifiable means?

If you have a testable definition for this "God" concept, then just say so, in your own words. That wall of text missed the mark.
"abiogenesis" is impossible,
Now you are being silly. I would be just as silly saying "gods are impossible", despite your inability to demonstrate otherwise.
"atheism" is automatically null and void.
Really? What of all the gods you do not believe in? You are an atheist yourself.
-------------------
Despite all of your protestations, the burden of evidence rests firmly with you.
 
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CabVet

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I'm not sure whether it is the best evidence, but for me at my stage of understanding, the existence of DNA, which is extremely intelligent code, and how it sits on top of RNA like a separate interface, which in turn sits on top of ..proteins and amino acids (I think), and the fact that there is no evidence of a non-DNA/RNA system evolving to a DNA/RNA system. It reminds me of a 3rd generation programing language (like FORTRAN/PASCAL, C, Lisp, etc.) (representing DNA) that converts its code into Assembly language (RNA) and then machine code.

No one has discovered how DNA, which even exists in bacteria, has 'evolved' into existence. Since DNA dictates everything we see in biology, there exists a massive hole in the theory of evolution, and I believe it is a significant one.
 
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SkyWriting

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Tell me how this eternal entity of yours is exempts itself from the laws of thermodynamics.

By not being physical. But you knew that already.

Originally Posted by SkyWriting - Given that intelligence is the only source of intelligence, I'll respond by saying that an all encompassing Creator is the most likely source for our physical and moral laws.

Being that it is not a given, this is dismissed.

Any other sources will be considered in an adequate rebuttal.


Perhaps a edit here might make this sentence comprehensible.
Feel free.
 
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SkyWriting

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It would be interesting to know if biology students get much programming instruction. I can relate to your insights from my experience in high level language and html coding.
 
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SkyWriting

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Dear Mr. Copy Pasta,

The Bible is full of errors, fabrications, contradictions and flat out lies.

Sorry.

No person here has successfully documented one yet.
But many have tried. Some claim an "infinite" number, but only
provide the same 6 or 7 when pressed for examples. Please try
to avoid those already covered.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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That we don't know how it could, isn't the same as knowing that it couldn't. The former is a mystery to be solved, the latter is hard evidence against. The sheer abundance of evidence for a common ancestor doesn't suddenly vanish, after all - even if we can't, at present, explain how DNA evolved, we still have sufficient evidence to conclude a common ancestor.

But that's all moot, as it's incorrect to suppose that we don't know how DNA evolved. Very roughly speaking, simple chemicals became amino acids became monomers became polymers became RNA became DNA. Read this paper for an overview.
 
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Loudmouth

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No one has discovered how DNA, which even exists in bacteria, has 'evolved' into existence. Since DNA dictates everything we see in biology, there exists a massive hole in the theory of evolution, and I believe it is a significant one.

So have we observed supernatural deities magically poofing DNA into existence, or manipulating DNA to produce new species? No. Isn't that a problem for creationism? In absence of this evidence, can we just simply state that abiogenesis must therefore be true?

If you want to play the false dichotomy, be aware that it cuts both ways.

Like others have stated, what we do know strongly evidences common ancestry. For example, we know how DNA accumulates mutations and recombines. We know how retroviruses insert into host genomes. From that knowledge we can determine if humans and other apes share a common ancestor. Specifically, we can look to see if the same retroviral insertions are found at the same positions in both the human genome and the genomes of other apes. Guess what? That is exactly what we find. The evidence for common ancestry is clear and unavoidable. The origin of DNA may be a mystery, but common ancestry is not.

If you will, we can take a different angle on this discussion. What scientific theory do you accept? Germ theory perhaps? Perhaps we can discuss a theory you do accept and see if it stands up to your criticisms.
 
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Davian

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By not being physical. But you knew that already.
Telling me what it *isn't* does not tell me what it *is*.

Is this 'entity' capable of expending energy, and if so, how does this eternal 'entity' of yours exempt itself from the laws of thermodynamics?
Any other sources will be considered in an adequate rebuttal.
Pointing out your unsupported presuppositions is an adequate rebuttal.
Feel free.
Fix your own sentences.
 
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Davian

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WLC says "The question is whether everything that begins to exist has a cause."

The universe has *not* been shown to have a beginning. WLC makes a beginner's mistake.
 
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Davian

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So, of the 63 pages (so far) in this thread, has anyone compiled a "best of" list of evidence for creationism?

My vote is for design and irreducible complexity.

But all we have so far is the *appearance* of design, and finding something that can be shown to be irreducibly complex has been... problematic.
 
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NailsII

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My vote is for design and irreducible complexity.

But all we have so far is the *appearance* of design, and finding something that can be shown to be irreducibly complex has been... problematic.
For design to be a realistic 'theory' you have to have an explanation for the bad designs, or the mindless rampaging parasites that plague life.
And as irriducible complexity has fallen quite spectacularly at the first hurdle, is there any sensible reason to keep looking at it as if it was an answer to anything?
 
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Davian

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Davian. I totally just said "gullible" very slowly. And now I feel dumb after having laughed at myself uncontrollably and nearly wetting myself. Thank you for that. I just went up two points on the "Fun Scale" for today.

I have the "If you say 'gullible' slowly it sounds like 'oranges'" T-shirt graphic on my ipad, and showed it to my mother-in-law at the dinner table the other day. She sounded it out three times before saying that she didn't get it. lol.

Then again, back when I told her there were three kinds of people in this world - those that can count, and those that can't - she patiently waited for me to provide the third type...

 
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Elias526

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this is citation isn&#8217;t even addressing a rape case at all.
22:25 Talks about rape: "But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die." The women is expected to scream for help if she can. If there is no one there to help her, then it is considered to be rape.
 
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CaliforniaSun

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What if the man told her he would kill her if she screamed? What then?
 
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Indeed there is sufficient evidence from DNA to conclude that every living thing has a common ancestor that evolved in a hierarchical manner. My concern is that, is this the only possible conclusion? I wonder if the likes of Richard Dawkins, who is very intelligent, pretended to believe in God the creator for 12 months, would come up with a different solution/conclusion.

I will read that paper when I find the time. I understand the DNA/RNA to be a digital system. A 3rd Generation programming language (or higher) that converts (via a compiler or two) its code into machine code would be absolutely useless if we did not first understand Boolean algebra, which is essential to utilize ON/OFF gates (or whatever they're called) in, e.g., a CPU. Since DNA/RNA is a digital system, it would have to obey Boolean algebra (or an equivalent) principles, it cannot rely on a hit-and-miss principle in order to function, surely. Don't we observe DNA pushing all the right buttons?
 
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Elias526

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So, of the 63 pages (so far) in this thread, has anyone compiled a "best of" list of evidence for creationism?
The best evidence right now is: Stephen C. Meyer: Signature in the Cell: DNA the Evidence for Intelligent Design. This is of course an ongoing discussion and the book will soon be outdated. Then on the other side you will find the skeptics like Michael Shermer and Richard Dawkins.

For me the skeptics look tired and drained. They do not seem to have an energy at work in them that believers have. Some call this energy Chi, others call this the power of God. Although Stephen Hawking is clearly an enigma because something is keeping him alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy0_Mn1s1xo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5a4iJuUuDk&feature=related
 
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