The Benefits System

Hexa · May 29, 2012

Bish bash bosh said:
Simply because that is what our forefathers strived for.

I'm sure there are `PLENTY of countries across the world who get none of this`...

What a irrational argument, because others don't receive it therefore we shouldn't either.

Progression is a healthy concept.

Bish

I never said that. I said people were lucky to be born into a country with a benifits systemsuch as ours, implying that if they were born else where in the world, or even in a different period of our history then they would not recieve the benifits they recieve now.Never did I say that becuase other people dont recieve it we shouldn't.

Bish bash bosh · May 29, 2012

Hexa said:
I never said that. I said people were lucky to be born into a country with a benifits systemsuch as ours, implying that if they were born else where in the world, or even in a different period of our history then they would not recieve the benifits they recieve now.Never did I say that becuase other people dont recieve it we shouldn't.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with `luck`. It has everything to do with what our forefathers fought and many died for.

We are not in a different country neither would we ever find ourself in an alternative period of history.

What an irrational argument.

Bish

Hexa · May 29, 2012

Bish bash bosh said:
It has nothing whatsoever to do with `luck`. It has everything to do with what our forefathers fought and many died for.

We are not in a different country neither would we ever find ourself in an alternative period of history.

What an irrational argument.

Bish

I think your either miss understanding my replies or I'm not explaining myself proper.

And your irrational use of the term irrational makes me think your the biggest plantpot I have ever "met."

Bish bash bosh · May 29, 2012

Hexa said:
And your irrational use of the term irrational makes me think your the biggest plantpot I have ever "met."

Good, at least we've cleared up the fact that your rationale is extremely irrational.

Bish

lismore · May 30, 2012

Genersis said:
I thought the point was it was a safety net that saves you from becoming homeless or starving to death by reviving money from that which has been deducted from peoples taxes...

But the example I used above. Someone can work for years then find themselves unemployed and be turned down for any benefits.

While on the other hand someone who doesn't want to work can be kept by the state.

What is the incentive to work or save? The worker can pay his taxes, then find no safety net for him.

Gadarene · May 30, 2012

lismore said:
But the example I used above. Someone can work for years then find themselves unemployed and be turned down for any benefits.

While on the other hand someone who doesn't want to work can be kept by the state.

What is the incentive to work or save? The worker can pay his taxes, then find no safety net for him.

That sounds like an incentive to save.

lismore · May 30, 2012

Gadarene said:
That sounds like an incentive to save.

But if you don't save the state will pay everything for you.

non-religious · May 31, 2012

Yeah because everyone is capable of saving

I agree with what Genersis said. The system is there to help those who, for whatever reason, have fallen on hard times and require financial assistance. People will always abuse the system, but as long as it is helping the overwhelming majority of genuine claimants then that is fine with me.

Benefit fraud should be addressed, but there are too many families out there who desperately need that help and I'm proud of the fact that we have a system that helps.

Have a nice day

ebia · May 31, 2012

Genersis said:
It has it's flaws. some of which could probably be handled better.
I admit i know little of how the system actually works.

I'd rather have it, and there be a minority that abuses it, and a minority that misses out.
Than not have it at all.
We just need to minimise those minorities.

Seems like more conservative media outlets...or The Sun at least; seems to be out to make people hate our welfare system and NHS.
It almost seems like they're trying to make people think it's not worth having.

The've been plugging that line as long as I can remember. Why stop now?

ebia · May 31, 2012

The OP has tied up two substantially different things.

The benefit system needs to pay out enough to live on for those who need it. Therefore there will always be some who decide they are happy with that and try to avoid finding work. The system tries to discourage that by having requirements to look for work, etc, but that becomes a law of diminishing returns. There will always be a few that get away with it unless you spend far more trying to catch them out than they are costing.

The issue of someone who finds themselves unemployed but with sufficient savings to support themselves for a time is an entirely separate issue.

Miser · May 31, 2012

I see a LOT of hatred on media websites and papers towards people on benefits. I believe this is incredibly unfair, the vast majority are in need of genuine help. I myself was on incapacity benefit due to mental health issues, and seeing what the Daily Mail wrote about "benefit scroungers" was devastating to me.

Please, do not judge people who need financial support, you may find yourself there one day.

DavePotter · May 31, 2012

It would be better if work pays.
Due to the high cost of housing (mortgages and rents, especially in the south) minimum wages would need to be a lot higher than they are now. Though I see there are a minority who do abuse the system, most are honest people in need of support, who would rather work if it paid to do so.

Dave.

non-religious · May 31, 2012

Yeah it seems that someone in receipt of housing benefit, income support, child benefit etc... will have to find a job that pays just as much in order to make ends meet. Perhaps they would have to earn even more. It's a vicious cycle.

Bish bash bosh · May 31, 2012

non-religious said:
Yeah it seems that someone in receipt of housing benefit, income support, child benefit etc... will have to find a job that pays just as much in order to make ends meet. Perhaps they would have to earn even more. It's a vicious cycle.

The pertinent point.

Where is the incentive for any low skilled manual worker to take a job which pass the same or less as what he is receiving from the government?

Bish

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