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You are correct. Those Berean-like Protestants who haven't made it into the Orthodox Church yet, are still searching.They are obviously still searching
There is only one standard for testing things like this: the Bible. Examine any doctrine a church teaches in light of scripture. Examine their actions in light of scripture. If things do not match up, talk to the pastor about it. If they won't change their ways to what scripture says, or can't give you a good scriptural reason that you might have missed, then they are probably a false church.
The only problem with that is that a person who thinks he's detected error can be a poorly educated, barely scripturally literate person. If he does all that and then concludes that he's in a "false church," he'll either join another that he'll probably eventually find a disagreement with, or start his own. What you've got is a situation MADE for church-shopping and/or division.
Look, people can claim all day long that the Holy Spirit is guiding them, but the FACT is that this approach just causes division.
How to test claims? Scripture and Tradition, certainly, but also REASON. God gave it to us for a reason. To just proof-text all the time is to let your God-given rational faculties atrophy. But even then, eventually, you'll have to realize that either the Holy Spirit has left us in a fog, to blindly grope about in hopes that we've interpreted scripture accurately, or he left us an authority.
1. A good reason, IMHO, to reject the extreme private, individual interpretation/arbitration demanded by the RCC?
So, is it your position that it's wrong to "test" claims?
Why then does Jesus commend the Ephesians for doing just that?
Is it your position that we must accept whatever is said or claimed by any and all, to "test" is ridiculous and appalling? How then can we conclude that any teacher is in error or is correct? How, then, can we reject Joseph Smith? Are you saying it's impossible to do as Jesus commends the Ephesians? Are you embracing total relativism? Are you saying that we simply must accept whatever anyone claims?
How do you suggest that we "test" as Jesus commends here, and what is the best way to avoid self-authentication in that process? Or are you concluding any such effort is "ridiculous" and Jesus is commending the Ephesians for something they should not have done?
Thank you.
Pax!
- Josiah
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When someone so clearly doesn't know what he's talking about regarding Catholicism, I see no reason to read further.
That is the best strategy. CJ is just trying to get you worked up. Clearly anyone that asserts that a public institution's collective decisions made by large deliberative bodies are somehow private decisions, is simply not being honest in their arguments and doing nothing more than trying to get you worked up.CaliforniaJosiah said:1. A good reason, IMHO, to reject the extreme private, individual interpretation/arbitration demanded by the RCC?
When someone so clearly doesn't know what he's talking about regarding Catholicism, I see no reason to read further.
That is the best strategy. CJ is just trying to get you worked up. Clearly anyone that asserts that a public institution's collective decisions made by large deliberative bodies are somehow “private decisions”, is simply not being honest in their arguments and doing nothing more than trying to get you worked up.
I believe that the test of these false prophets rest in the Scriptures. If the so-called prophet or teacher teaches or prophesizes something contrary to the Word of God, they are to be accursed (labeled false).
I also believe there is forgiveness for them in the church, the body of Christ. However, I think the specific teachers referenced in Revelation will not be repenting and asking forgiveness.
See the following verse for a prophet, though it is Old Testament material:
Deuteronomy 13:1 If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, Let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them, 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil* from your midst.
Even if the prophecies come true, if they don't worship the true God, they are to be accursed.
Deuteronomy 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy chapter 18 gave me great comfort when I experienced a personal challenge to my faith. Some people very close to me were demanding that I submit to and obey their authority, and claimed to be prophets and to be telling me the words of other prophets. Their demands were strong, and I had to give a response or be found guilty of ignoring these clear warnings about my beliefs and behavior.
Although I had every reason to believe my beliefs and behavior was Biblically sound and appropriate, the vigor and determination they had made me question myself a little; they kept pushing, sounding so sure of themselves, and they claimed to speak in the 'name of the Lord.' Sometimes, they even claimed, 'Thus says the Lord...'
I couldn't simply ignore these things and pretend they didn't matter, I needed something concrete. Deuteronomy 18 was my reassurance. These same individuals made prophecies on numerous occasions, and ALL of their prophecies (at least 4-5 which I knew of) indeed did NOT come to pass; I then could rest assured that they were not of God, and I had no reason to fear them.
That is the best strategy. CJ is just trying to get you worked up. Clearly anyone that asserts that a public institution's collective decisions made by large deliberative bodies are somehow private decisions, is simply not being honest in their arguments and doing nothing more than trying to get you worked up.
All in the name of "humility," of course.
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