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You're not answering the objections people have.
How is it ethical for God to punish people for sinning when he imposed upon them at birth the predisposition towards sin?
Your freedom is found in your capacity to make a choice.
Choose life, or choose death.
There is no third option.
Choosing life means you recognize you have fallen short of the glory of God and deserve life without God. It means you look at Christ on the cross and accept His atonement for your sins and receive Him as Lord and Savior.
Choosing death means you reject the offer of salvation and when you die you will be judged for the way you lived your life. Since you cannot meet God's righteous standard of Holiness, you will be sent to the place where you want to be, apart from God.
People were offended at Christ for the exact reason you are offended at me. Because He told them they were sinners in need of a Savior.
That was the point of my other thread.
It is ethical because God has made a way to escape punishment.
By this reasoning, it is ethical for Saudi Arabia to execute apostates because there is a way to escape the punishment. Not announcing your leaving of Islam and remain dishonest about it.It is ethical because God has made a way to escape punishment.
Ok, so why are you still talking with me then?
Why are you here on a Christian forum?
Are you trying to convince me that I am wrong about Christ?
Are you trying to convince me that I am unfair in saying you need a Savior?
I assure you my friend, if you do not know me by now, and what my convictions are, you have not been paying attention.
I can understand you are angry. People were angry just like you are now when Christ told them that unless they believed in Him, they would die in their sins.
These are not my words, but God's.
It is staggering that you cannot see the plain injustice of this. An atheist, or a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Buddhist, could live a decent life, with honesty and compassion, and still be condemned to eternal damnation for not believing
in the right dogmas.
Whereas a person who lies, steals and kills for most of his life, and then "sees the light" and accepts Christ in the final minutes before his demise,
is welcomed into an eternal paradise. Instead of acknowledging the deep injustice of this divine judicial system you cast aspersions on the character of those who dare question it, disparaging them as "selfish" and "arrogant" for deeming it wholly unjust.
The only other alternative to what you call this "deep injustice" is that everybody be condemned for their sins.
Is that really what you would want to happeN?
This elusive standard that appears to be total perfection (an absurd criterion to impose upon imperfect beings) with the opt-out of course being the permanent surrender of will and servitude towards God.Elioenai26 said:God is not concerned with you living a "decent" life. What is "decent" varies from person to person anyway and is subjective. If God exists, it is HIS STANDARD that we are measured by, not some made up standard that suits our fancy.
So you are right. Continue....
I know what your convictions are. I respond to you because people spewing as much nonsense as you need public correction, and frequently if they do not appear to be learning, which you do not appear to be.
I respond because I would truly hate for any passing/lurking unfortunate to think you were talking sense.
And I respond because I do enjoy watching apologists degenerate into a mess of hypocrisy and incompetence.
Nope, again - I am angry at your repeated lies about atheists. This is your responsibility, and denial of this is nothing more than a total failure on your part to get your message across.
Then your god is as inept as you are.
This elusive standard that appears to be total perfection (an absurd criterion to impose upon imperfect beings) with the opt-out of course being the permanent surrender of will and servitude towards God.
LOL.... ok...
I still love ya Gadarene. No ill will here on my part.
My message is the same you have heard your entire life, and one you will continue to hear as long as Christians care enough to tell you that you need Christ.
So God judging us by that standard is absurd.You are right. God's standard is total moral perfection and is elusive to man. In fact, it is impossible for a man to live up to God's holiness in and of himself.
No, I am understanding that God imposes absurd standards upon humanity and institutes a single solution that only picks up at most 30% of the human population alive and condemns others not even aware of the oncoming judgement.Now you are understanding why Christ is so necessary.
So just to be clear - we're putting ourselves on pedestals, but your comparisons of yourself and Christ constitute humility?
The issue is not that we're sinners in need of a saviour, and if you'd paid attention you'd know that. We do not believe that sin exists as we do not believe God exists, and you have not justified that. Therefore we do not think we need a saviour of the kind you mention as the problem does not exist, nor do we think Christ was divine in the way that you do, again unjustified.
I'm offended at you because you insist on knowing our motivations for our opinions better than we do rather than actually LISTENING to us, and engage in frequent misrepresentation of us (we're selfish, we're putting ourselves on pedestals, etc). You do this while engaging in your own hypocritical self-aggrandising (comparing yourself to Christ, complimenting yourself with Bible verses about your supposed "great love") and then declare that if we're offended, it's basically not your fault.
You are like your alleged deity in one respect - you have no sense whatsoever of what constitutes consistent behaviour and repeatedly pass the buck when it comes to taking responsibility. (And knowing you a comparison with God of any stripe will go down well with you - enjoy it)
God is not concerned with you living a "decent" life. What is "decent" varies from person to person anyway and is subjective.
If God exists, it is HIS STANDARD that we are measured by, not some made up standard that suits our fancy.
So you are right. Continue....
Wrong.
For not believing in Christ for the remission of their sins you should have said......continue.....
The thief on the cross comes to mind....continue.....
Salvation is not some last ditch last effort escape hatch one jumps into after conciously making the decision to live a wicked life as long as they can.
Salvation is being saved from one's sins. However one comes to accept Christ, the important thing is that they accept Him, deathbed or not.
The only other alternative to what you call this "deep injustice" is that everybody be condemned for their sins.
Is that really what you would want to happeN?
Where have I compared myself with Christ?
If anything I have repeatedly said I am nothing without Him, miserable, and weak....
And some people don't think the Holocaust ever happened.....
I know what God has said about those who deny He exists. That is all I need to go by.
You keep comparing how you're being received to how people received Jesus.Where have I compared myself with Christ?
If anything I have repeatedly said I am nothing without Him, miserable, and weak....
Oh come on, is this meant to be serious? You think the existence of sin is as established as the historical fact of the Holocaust?And some people don't think the Holocaust ever happened.....
So does this mean that when we tell you that you're presuming to speak for us you'll ignore us and continue to smear us? How is this participation in good faith?I know what God has said about those who deny He exists. That is all I need to go by.
Which is not comparable, as that has evidence for it.
And that is why you will keep failing.
Elioenai is the punishment for apostasy from Islam across much of the Islamic world moral, yes or no?
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