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Teaching the difference?

athorist

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Oh yes, I would concur. No religious theory of creation belongs in the science classroom, especially not the thinly veiled ad-hoc creationism hybrid that is ID.
Seems like we are in total agreement here then. What really bugs me about ID though, is that there seems to be a campaign going on that deliberatly tries to spread disinformation. I know that I may be unfair here, but I can't help blaming the moderate (majority) of christians for shielding that behaviour. I would have hoped for the moderate voices to be louder and more visible.

Yes, indeed, Genesis is quite specific about the process. The problem that I see, is that you really have to interpret it very metaphorically if you don't want it to be flatly contradicted by what we know through science. Which leads to the question how metaphorically the bible is to be interpreted in general. There seems to be no rule to decide. For me this raises the question whether there is any point in relying on the bible at all, but that's maybe a matter of taste, I guess.

I'm not sure if I follow you here. I hardly see dogma in evolutionary biology and I can very well see why the scientists in that field are really upset. Just take a look at some of the inane posts in this thread alone. The feeling among many scientists is that science itself is under attack, which is the reason that many researchers who work in other fields solidarize with biologists who are at the frontline.

I can assure you it occupies the mind of the non-believer more than the believer. The desire to know were we come from seems to be deeply embedded in the mind of any human being. It's just that the non-believers are not satisfied with an oversimplified answer.

As in that which cannot be explained is attributed to God, or have I misunderstood what you meant?
Yes, that's what I meant.

Indeed thin ground. The formation of aminoacids from anorganic matter can be reproduced in laboratory (see the Miller-Uray experiment). Self-orginization and emergence seem to play a major role in the process of abiogenesis, but this is a relatively new field of science and is only recently really accessible to us mathematicians through the explosion in computation-capacity of modern computers. But as for how the exact details work out, nobody really knows. Another unsolved and most important issue is the problem of monochirality: why are all naturally occuring molecules of L-chirality? We have ideas, and monochirality is actually a strong indicator that all life on earth has one single origin, but here also we ultimately don't know. Divine intervention seems to be a very unlikely theory, though.

Keep in mind that WMAP, background radiation and so on only gives us an imagine of what happened immediately after the Big Bang. Gauge-theory, M-theory and the various flavours of String-Theory seem to be good bets, but unfortunately there is no observational evidence yet. The LHC is supposed to change that, but I wouldn't be surprised if we observe something completely unpredicted in the LHC. Baryon-asymmetry is another important problem that has to be solved and the LHC has an entire detector reserved for that single purpose. Let's hope the LHC will at least find the Higgs-particle so that gauge-theory would be set on a robust observational basis. Interesting times we live in...

There is no scientific evidence for this, nor will there ever be in my opinion, so I guess it's a matter of faith. Which must be a frustrating answer, so my apologies.
To the contrary!
 
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Jersey

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I know they wouldn't. It was only meant as a tongue in cheek comment, sort of satire just to make a point of how absurd it is for Creationism to be taught along side science. Totally ridiculous !

I don't really agree with your last sentence simply because God belief doesn't really answer any questions. It's just creates more mysteries. God isn't doing anything because there isn't any evidence for a God in the first place.


At least you are the right track to thinking clearly and objectively when it comes to the metaphors in the bible. Sooner or later you might be a member of the free thinkers club and I'll be the first to welcome you sir. Keep up the good work as you apply more reason as you go through the bible and will see it for the ancient relic that it really is.
 
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Markus6

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Ha, yes. To be a 'free thinker' you have to be non-christian and see the bible as an ancient relic. Bravo sir, you are free indeed!
 
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Staccato

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I know they wouldn't. It was only meant as a tongue in cheek comment, sort of satire just to make a point of how absurd it is for Creationism to be taught along side science. Totally ridiculous !

Satire somewhat fades compared to the absurdity of reality these days my friend

I don't really agree with your last sentence simply because God belief doesn't really answer any questions. It's just creates more mysteries. God isn't doing anything because there isn't any evidence for a God in the first place.

I agree that it may created more mysteries, but I disagree when you say it answers no questions. On the contrary, it answers nearly all of them. Does this mean we should stop searching for answers? No. We are given brains so as to use them, and should not fear what we can discover by exercising them once in a while.
And when you say 'evidence' I fear you fall into the semantic trap of limiting into the category of 'objective, empirical and physical'. This may be some of the most convincing type of evidence, but it is not the only sort.


Thanks, but I like to think I'm not one of these people who reads the Bible with my eyes closed and mind shut as you may think. I already do apply logical deductive reasoning similar to yourself and several others. I merely come to a different conclusion. That does not mean my methodology is wrong, only that there are differing variables in play for you than for myself.
 
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Jersey

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Ha, yes. To be a 'free thinker' you have to be non-christian and see the bible as an ancient relic. Bravo sir, you are free indeed!

I'm glad you noticed that i am free. Free from the fear and superstitions one finds in the bible and religion in general. Free indeed, yes indeed. I could never believe the bible is reality. Then again if it was reality there wouldn't be any need to believe in then right? Unless of course I suspend disbelief which is the main requirement for believing in such a primitive relic.

That said, you have a wonderful day.

Sir.
 
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