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Take the NIV Challenge

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Jephunneh

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Always correct the Greek with an English KJV

Psa. 9:17--

"17. The wicked return to the grave, all the nations that forget God." NIV

"17. The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God." KJV

So the wicked are sent back to the grave and all nations that forget God?
Do you think so?
The Jehovah's Witnesses do. Of course, they get their Bible from the same place all the new versions come from.


__________________
Job 26
2 How hast thou helped him that is without power? how savest thou the arm that hath no strength?
3 How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom? and how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?
4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?
5 Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
 
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fragmentsofdreams

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The word translated as Hell in the KJV is Sheol, which refers to the grave.
 
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Susan

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The English corrects the Greek? LOL!

Soooo. . .I guess the KJV translators, according to this "logic," were more inspired than the Apostles themselves (who wrote the earliest Greek texts IIRC)

::LOL::
 
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The Thadman

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I have to agree with fragments.

I ALSO need to point out that you're telling me to use a translation to correct the actual text it was translated from.

How can a translation be more correct than the original?

Shlomo,
 
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SoccerAaron

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Why are you judging a translation by how it compares to another translation?
You totally threw me. You compare to KJV to top it off. We judge a translation with the original texts.
 
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The Thadman

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You would need to prove that God inspired the translation you're bringing into question. The NIV makes no claims of inspiration, where the KJV's authors claimed that they were NOT inspired.

If I spoke in tongues infront of you in the Holy Spirit, would you believe it? Would you believe and think an interpretation of them to be inspired? If so, why? If not so, why?

If I prophesied for you through God's Grace, would you believe me? Would you heed my words? If so, why? If not so, why?

I can claim that my translation is inspired and Holy Spirit driven, but would you believe me? If so, why? If not so, why?

The fact of the matter is that there are many people who believed that they made inspired translations, like the Jehovah's Wittnesses and Joseph Smith (the leader of the Mormons), but they all had bias: Just like the KJV and NIV, they were the products of human hands.

May God bless you, and Jesus be LORD,
 
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SoccerAaron

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Yesterday at 01:32 PM Jephunneh said this in Post #187 "original texts" ? There is no such thing

So they made up the stuff in the KJV from nothing?

"How can a translation be more correct than the original?"
The answer in one word?
God.
You can't translate something without any mistakes.
 
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The Thadman

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Here are some quotes from the authors of the KJV:


They even believed that it doesn't matter what translation you used:


The section of the KJV that the translators labeled as "NO TRANSLATORS TRANSLATIONS PERFECT LIKE THE ORIGINALS" can be found at http://www.christianbeliefs.org/kjv/kjvtr/kjvtr-13.html .

The KJV has also gone through many revisions:

First, there were printer errors.

[ol]
[li]There was the Wicked Bible which omitted "not" from 7 of the 10 Commandments.
[li]The Vinegar Bible with its parable of the vinegar
[li]The Unrighteous Bible where the unrighteous inherit the kingdom
[li]The Ears to Ear Bible and an assortment of others
[/ol]

Intentional Changes:

[ol]
[li]1612
[li]Early editions used either "he" or "she" at Ruth 3:15
[li]1613
[li]1616
[li]In fact, between 1611 and 1644 there were 182 editions
[li]1629 edition omitted the Apocrypha
[li]1638 edition by Goad, Ward, Boyse and Mead
[li]1659 William Kilburne found 20,000 errors in 6 different editions made in the 1650's
[li]1660 marginal references introduced
[li]1683 Dr.Anthony Scargood added 7,250 references
[li]1727 thousands of errors were amended by the King's Printer
[li]1762 italics extended by Therold and Paris and modernized the language
[li]1769 extensive revision by B.Blayney
[li]The 1795 edition(Murderers Bible) rendered Mark 7:27 as "Let the chidren first be killed" (instead of filled).
[li]Blayney's edition became standard until....
[li]1873 the Cambridge Paragraph Bible edited by Scrivener
[/ol]

Just some cool fact.

Shlomo,
 
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The Thadman

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Better hilights of the Translator notes, my comments in double parentheses "(( ))":


Shlomo,
 
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Jephunneh

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Which Bible verses did the NIV delete? (the Jehovah's Witness "Bible" deletes the EXACT same ones! ALL of 'em!)

I just opened the JW "Bible", the New World Translation (1961 ed.), and looked up all the verses that the NIV completely deletes. THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BIBLE DELETES THE EXACT SAME ONES!!!! I mean ALL of 'em!

Here's another one:

I John 5:7 -- Vitally important phrase COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"].
In the NIV it says,

"For there are three that testify:"

Compare the NIV reading with the following Jehovah's Witness reading--

"For there are three witness bearers,"

What are you NIV readers missing? What does the real Bible say?

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

This is one of the GREATEST verses testifying of the trinity. That is why the Jehovah's Witnesses leave it out. They do not believe in the trinity and they do not believe that Jesus is God. Why does the NIV leave it out...? Whole books have been written on the manuscript evidence that supports inclusion of this verse in the Bible.
Don't you believe in the triunity of God?
If so, then this deletion should offend you.
People are playing around with the Bible and it ain't funny.
 
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Jesusong

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1 John 5:7
Whole books have been written on the manuscript evidence that supports inclusion of this verse in the Bible.

What manuscript evidence????????????????????????????????

1 John 5:7 has been absent from every Greek manuscript prior to the 16th century. 
 
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Jephunneh

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Js, Why not start a thread on 1 John 5:7, this one is about the NIV.




The evidence for the early existence of 1 John 5:7(the Johannine Comma) is found in the following sources (some abbreviations are made when quoting the source - if there are questions, I can give the specifics):

1) 200 - Tertullian quotes the verse (Gill, "An exposition of the NT", Vol 2, pp. 907-8)

2) 250 - Cyprian, who writes, "And again concerning the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'and the Three are One'" (Vienna, vol. iii, p. 215)

3) 350 - Priscillian cites the verse (Vienna, vol. xviii, p. 6)

4) 350 - Idacius Clarus cites the verse (MPL, vol. 62, col. 359)

5) 350 - Athanasius cites the verse (Gill)

6) 415 - Council of Carthage appeals to the verse as a basic text proving a fundamental doctrine when contending with the Arians (Ruckman, "History of the NT Church", Vol. I, p. 146)

7) 450-530 - several orthodox African writers quote the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:

A) Vigilius Tapensis (MPL, vol. 62, col. 243)

B) Victor Vitensis (Vienna, vol. vii, p. 60)

C) Fulgentius (MPL, vol. 65, col. 500)

8) 500 - Cassiodorus cites the verse (MPL, vol. 70, col. 1373)

9) 550 - Old Latin ms r has the verse

10) 550 - The "Speculum" contains the verse

11) 750 - Wianburgensis cites the verse

12) 800 - Jerome's Vulgate includes the verse

13) 1150 - minuscule ms 88 in the margin

14) 1200-1400 - Waldensian Bibles have the verse

15) 1500 - ms 61 has the verse

16) various witnesses cited in Nestle's 26th edition for a replacement of the text as it stands with the Comma: 221 v.l.;2318 vg[cl]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r; and other important Latin mss.
 
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Ioustinos

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What are the dates of these citations? Were they before or after the 13th to 16th century?
 
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Jephunneh

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200 to 1500 AD
 
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Jeffer

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WO! The NIV the same as the JW Bible! Thanks Jephunneh for the Info.
 
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