suicide?

Overcomer2002 · Jan 6, 2006

jasperbound said:
Your reasoning is pathetic. Seriously, do you not see a difference between voluntarily sacrificing oneself for the sake of others and wanting one's life to end to escape one's troubles? If you see no difference between martyrdom and suicide, then that's your problem.

Then why don't you kill your fleshly desires and try sacrificing yourself for others like Jesus said instead of making ridiculous justifications for suicide

How pathetic

ebia · Jan 6, 2006

HeartFullaLove said:
Let's just say I've heard it before and I am GENUINELY tired of it.

Your posts look an awful lot like:
"I do not have a professional understanding, but I take view towards the extremes of professional opinion and then get frustated when the mainstream of general professionals don't agree with me." Reading a few books, however convincing, does not make you an expert in any field.

jasperbound · Jan 6, 2006

Overcomer2002 said:
Then why don't you kill your fleshly desires and try sacrificing yourself for others like Jesus said instead of making ridiculous justifications for suicide

How pathetic

Show me where I justified suicide, all right?

Overcomer2002 · Jan 6, 2006

jasperbound said:
Yes, by committing suicide, one is rejecting God and essentially giving Him the finger, but that's true of all sin. Anybody who sins is essentially giving God the finger, so it's stupid to act as if suicide is a special case. If people who commit suicide aren't Christians because by committing suicide, they are rejecting God, then people who sin aren't Christians because by sinning, they are rejecting God. Sin is sin.
As for the mental health of such a person, I doubt people who commit suicide, murder, rape, etc. are all there, yet murderers will still be held accountable for their murders.

Yup stealing a bottle of soda is the same as suicide. yup !!! sin is sin

HeartFullaLove · Jan 6, 2006

ebia said:
Your posts look an awful lot like:
"I do not have a professional understanding, but I take view towards the extremes of professional opinion and then get frustated when the mainstream of general professionals don't agree with me." Reading a few books, however convincing, does not make you an expert in any field.

Nor does having a spouse.

You already told me what my posts SOUND like to you and I recommended you get your hearing aid checked because you are misinterpreting the sound. Now you tell me what the LOOK like to you. Get your glasses checked.

I study lots of things. Some lead me to unconventional conclusions, most don't. However, remember that my conclusions on this matter are supported by top professionals, not the extremes.

HeartFullaLove · Jan 6, 2006

Overcomer2002 said:
Yup stealing a bottle of soda is the same as suicide. yup !!! sin is sin

The Scripture does not say the "sin is sin."

HeartFullaLove · Jan 6, 2006

Overcomer2002 said:
Well Gee !!! I guess Jesus was a sinner. He clearly said that he came to this world to die. And several times he was worried and frustrated. He clearly stated that "no one takes my life, I lay it down freely" OH yes, suicidal, thats it, Jesus was suicidal.

HOW ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC REASONING!!!!!!

If you cannot see the difference between Jesus voluntarily laying His life down and suicide, you do not understand the cross.

HeartFullaLove · Jan 6, 2006

jasperbound said:
1 Kings 19:3-53 And when he saw that, he arose, and went for his life, and came to Beersheba, which belongeth to Judah, and left his servant there. 4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers. 5 And as he lay and slept under a juniper tree, behold, then an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat.

So, if I were to say to God, "Kill me! Take my life, please!" that would not be suicidal? If I were to request that my life be taken away, that would not be suicidal?

You'll notice that he asked for death from GOD -- the One who has that decision in His power anyway. He didn't try to take his own life into his own hands.

bliz · Jan 6, 2006

HeartFullaLove said:
You already told me what my posts SOUND like to you and I recommended you get your hearing aid checked because you are misinterpreting the sound. Now you tell me what the LOOK like to you. Get your glasses checked.

HeartFulla... What???

It would be nice to see a little of that love instead of rude and unkind comments.

jasperbound · Jan 6, 2006

HeartFullaLove said:
You'll notice that he asked for death from GOD -- the One who has that decision in His power anyway. He didn't try to take his own life into his own hands.

I guess that means I'm not suicidal by hoping to die as soon as possible. In fact, I'm somewhat righteous by begging God to kill me as soon as possible!

jasperbound · Jan 6, 2006

Overcomer2002 said:
Yup stealing a bottle of soda is the same as suicide. yup !!! sin is sin

I don't see how that's justifying suicide. It's pointing out that it's just one of many sins, and if people who commit suicide aren't real Christians since real Christians wouldn't sin (commit suicide), then that means that people who steal bottles of soda aren't really Christian because real Christians would never steal. Now, if you want to pretend there are sins that are all right to commit without care, then go ahead.

HeartFullaLove · Jan 6, 2006

bliz said:
HeartFulla... What???

It would be nice to see a little of that love instead of rude and unkind comments.

Yeah, and Jesus would never have called people dogs, snakes, sons of the devil, and hypocrites either, 'cause He was LU-U-U-UV!

HeartFullaLove · Jan 6, 2006

jasperbound said:
I guess that means I'm not suicidal by hoping to die as soon as possible. In fact, I'm somewhat righteous by begging God to kill me as soon as possible!

No, that would not be suicidal. That would be called giving up, but suicide is where one takes actions with the intent to end their own life. Even Paul says that he and his fellow missionaries sometimes "dispaired of life" yet they never took actions to kill themselves. You are arguing against a straw man.

Overcomer2002 · Jan 6, 2006

jasperbound said:
I don't see how that's justifying suicide. It's pointing out that it's just one of many sins, and if people who commit suicide aren't real Christians since real Christians wouldn't sin (commit suicide), then that means that people who steal bottles of soda aren't really Christian because real Christians would never steal. Now, if you want to pretend there are sins that are all right to commit without care, then go ahead.

You can replace the bottle of soda by restoring (paying for) it 4 times over. When you do this, it's as if you have never committed the sin. This is called repentence and it is what Jesus wants to see and what he preached. Restoring what has been lost. Like Zachaeus. When did Jesus say "Salvation has come to this house"? When Zachaeus said "and if I have taken anything that I was not suppose to, I will restore it 7 times over"

If Paul saw or heard that any leader of the church was not above reproach or had the hint of sin, Paul kicked them out. He said "better to let Satan have them for a season so that they could repent and save their souls".

Now you're telling me sin is sin, that committing suicide is a sin like any other?

If you came into my church and spewed that garbage about suicide, I'd be the first one to boot you out.

You need to change your outlook on Christianity. Cause you know nothing about the God, Jesus or Holy Spirit that I worship.

AngelusSax · Jan 6, 2006

You can replace the bottle of soda by restoring (paying for) it 4 times over. When you do this, it's as if you have never committed the sin. This is called repentence and it is what Jesus wants to see and what he preached. Restoring what has been lost. Like Zachaeus. When did Jesus say "Salvation has come to this house"? When Zachaeus said "and if I have taken anything that I was not suppose to, I will restore it 7 times over"

If Paul saw or heard that any leader of the church was not above reproach or had the hint of sin, Paul kicked them out. He said "better to let Satan have them for a season so that they could repent and save their souls".

Now you're telling me sin is sin, that committing suicide is a sin like any other?

If you came into my church and spewed that garbage about suicide, I'd be the first one to boot you out.

You need to change your outlook on Christianity. Cause you know nothing about the God, Jesus or Holy Spirit that I worship.

*bites tongue*

Okay, now I can be a little more civil.

So, it is your theology that there is a hierarchy of sin? Perhaps I don't know anything about the God, Jesus or Holy Spirit that you worship. I do believe, however, that I know about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and I follow them to the best of my ability in His Grace (which by definition means we do absolutely NOTHING to get it, and that would include repentance, which we can only do once in Grace).

softballpenny · Jan 6, 2006

isnt it possible for DEMONS to persuade people to become suicidal?
i dont think it would be that easy to be a christian who is : depressed,wavering in faith,being tempeted by a demon to commit suicide, and NOT do it.

PhantomMullet24 · Jan 6, 2006

Here's my $.02

A dear friend of mine committed suicide October 14th, 2005. She had been a christian at one point, and I didn't know if she still was or not, honestly.
I kept having nightmares of her in hell or of her shooting herself, until I talked to a friend of mine who's a youth pastor.

When I asked him if I thought she had a chance of being in Heaven, he told me that if we ever knew the answer to that, we would understand God's grace. and we probably never will. God's miraculous grace takes into account the person's heart, how they were feeling, etc. God knows that person more than we could ever dream to, so He knows where they're supposed to be.

That helped me sleep afterwards.

PhantomMullet24 · Jan 6, 2006

AngelusSax said:
*bites tongue*

Okay, now I can be a little more civil.

So, it is your theology that there is a hierarchy of sin? Perhaps I don't know anything about the God, Jesus or Holy Spirit that you worship. I do believe, however, that I know about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and I follow them to the best of my ability in His Grace (which by definition means we do absolutely NOTHING to get it, and that would include repentance, which we can only do once in Grace).

oh and I agree to AngelusSax. the Bible tells us that all sins are the same in God's eyes, even if they're not in our eyes. So whether you steal something or you murder someone, it's all the same level of sin. Sin is evil, plain and simple.

HeartFullaLove · Jan 6, 2006

PhantomMullet24 said:
Here's my $.02

That helped me sleep afterwards.

So does the siren's song (thrum thrum).

HeartFullaLove · Jan 6, 2006

PhantomMullet24 said:
the Bible tells us that all sins are the same in God's eyes, even if they're not in our eyes.

The Bible says no such thing.

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