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Ok but do you see what you have done. This is where you go wrong. You focus on one aspect and dont see the forest through the trees. This is what side tracks you and confuses things.You do it like this:-
Post 108 - "how can 1200 people represent the entire population? "
Post 109 - "I'm afraid size does matter."
Post 116 - "But the point is wont the more you survey the more accurate the survey will be."
Post 118 - "In order to have confidence that your survey results are representative, it is critically important that you have a large number of randomly-selected participants in each group you survey."
Post 120 - "But what I was trying to show was that basically the more people you have in a survey the more accurate the results will be."
Post 124 - I was merely saying that the size of a survey is important."
Post 126 - "OK then why do those tables show an increasing accuracy rate as you add more people to the sample. I am only going from what some of these sites are saying."
That's how it's done.
I realize this now and didn't understand how they used sample sizes. The sample sizes do increase with population size but it reaches a point where a certain sample size is adequate to represent the population. I acknowledged that. But the size factor was just one aspect I questioned as to if the survey was reliable thats all. AS I stated there are several factors that determine if a survey if reliable or not and I mentioned a few others as well. Such as the type of questions and how they are asked. The point was the survey seemed to be in contradiction with other surveys and common sense. We dont know how and if they did their survey properly so it all speculation.Yes, but it's not feasible to survey the entire population for a study of this kind. That's why scientists try to obtain a representative sample. Is there a particular reason to suppose that the sample size for this kind of study was too small?
Well it seems some are saying that there is no difference between the morals of religious and non religious people. I thing this survey hasn't really defined much at all. You have to question what they mean by morals and what the purpose of the survey was in the first place.It's not supposed to. That wasn't the aim of the study. Your criticism seems to be that they didn't do what they never set out to do.
I think a lot of people are. Why what do you think this survey is saying.You seem to be confused about the descriptive versus prescriptive aspect.
No I'm saying its different in many ways. We have all know that for a long time. Thats why secular society always has a go at religious people for being to strict with their morals isn't it. Religious people have always taken a different stand on many moral issues.You're implying that the non-religious don't have a particular standard.
I didn't understand how sample sizes work but now I do. But that was just one factor I was using as to why I thought the survey wasn't reliable. There can be several factors that can make a survey unreliable like what questions are asked, how they are asked, loaded questions, where they do the survey, what definitions they put on things ect. We dont know all that so there is no validation. That was the basis of why I questioned it because it contradicted other surveys and also common sense.On what do you base this conclusion? Why isn't it a good size?
What do you mean, are you saying that some religious people think porn is OK. I dont think so. But generally secular society will accept porn is OK by the fact they dont restrict it in secular society. Thats doesn't mean that there are individuals in secular society that think its wrong. But generally it has to be seen that secular society allows porn as part of their lifestyles. Thats the same for many issues. Thats why the survey is something that is hard to accept and understand as it isn't a black and white issue. I think you need to go into things a little deeper to gauge the true attitudes and beliefs of people rather than some survey.Religious people differ on those issues too.
Well what was the aim. It seems many on here are talking about moral attitudes towards things like homosexuality, assisted suicide, abortion and morally divisive issues like that from reading some of the posts. So the survey has provoked people to take the meaning as the difference in religious and non religious peoples attitudes towards these issues.You don't seem to understand the aim of the study.
You have a certain way of putting things dont you. Do you think you have any pre conceived ideas.Why don't you save yourself a lot of rambling (and us a lot of unnecessary reading) by making a simple statement like:-
"I don't like the results of this survey, because they don't fit with my pre-conceived ideas about morality, so I'm going to throw up any excuse I can think of to cast doubt upon it."
See how much space that saved?
I realize this now and didn't understand how they used sample sizes. The sample sizes do increase with population size but it reaches a point where a certain sample size is adequate to represent the population. I acknowledged that. But the size factor was just one aspect I questioned as to if the survey was reliable thats all. AS I stated there are several factors that determine if a survey if reliable or not and I mentioned a few others as well. Such as the type of questions and how they are asked. The point was the survey seemed to be in contradiction with other surveys and common sense. We dont know how and if they did their survey properly so it all speculation.
Well it seems some are saying that there is no difference between the morals of religious and non religious people. I thing this survey hasn't really defined much at all. You have to question what they mean by morals and what the purpose of the survey was in the first place.
I think a lot of people are. Why what do you think this survey is saying.
No I'm saying its different in many ways. We have all know that for a long time. Thats why secular society always has a go at religious people for being to strict with their morals isn't it. Religious people have always taken a different stand on many moral issues.
I didn't understand how sample sizes work but now I do. But that was just one factor I was using as to why I thought the survey wasn't reliable. There can be several factors that can make a survey unreliable like what questions are asked, how they are asked, loaded questions, where they do the survey, what definitions they put on things ect. We dont know all that so there is no validation. That was the basis of why I questioned it because it contradicted other surveys and also common sense.
What do you mean, are you saying that some religious people think porn is OK. I dont think so. But generally secular society will accept porn is OK by the fact they dont restrict it in secular society. Thats doesn't mean that there are individuals in secular society that think its wrong. But generally it has to be seen that secular society allows porn as part of their lifestyles. Thats the same for many issues. Thats why the survey is something that is hard to accept and understand as it isn't a black and white issue. I think you need to go into things a little deeper to gauge the true attitudes and beliefs of people rather than some survey.
Well what was the aim. It seems many on here are talking about moral attitudes towards things like homosexuality, assisted suicide, abortion and morally divisive issues like that from reading some of the posts. So the survey has provoked people to take the meaning as the difference in religious and non religious peoples attitudes towards these issues.
So how do you explain it when another survey will sow contradictory results.Steve,
The people that do these survey's have it down to a science and they have tested methods to perform surveys, that produce reliable results, within the margin of error.
So how do you explain it when another survey will sow contradictory results.
I realize this now and didn't understand how they used sample sizes. The sample sizes do increase with population size but it reaches a point where a certain sample size is adequate to represent the population. I acknowledged that. But the size factor was just one aspect I questioned as to if the survey was reliable thats all. AS I stated there are several factors that determine if a survey if reliable or not and I mentioned a few others as well. Such as the type of questions and how they are asked. The point was the survey seemed to be in contradiction with other surveys and common sense. We dont know how and if they did their survey properly so it all speculation.
Well it seems some are saying that there is no difference between the morals of religious and non religious people. I thing this survey hasn't really defined much at all. You have to question what they mean by morals and what the purpose of the survey was in the first place.
No I'm saying its different in many ways. We have all know that for a long time. Thats why secular society always has a go at religious people for being to strict with their morals isn't it. Religious people have always taken a different stand on many moral issues.
I didn't understand how sample sizes work but now I do. But that was just one factor I was using as to why I thought the survey wasn't reliable. There can be several factors that can make a survey unreliable like what questions are asked, how they are asked, loaded questions, where they do the survey, what definitions they put on things ect. We dont know all that so there is no validation. That was the basis of why I questioned it because it contradicted other surveys and also common sense.
What do you mean, are you saying that some religious people think porn is OK. I dont think so. But generally secular society will accept porn is OK by the fact they dont restrict it in secular society.
Thats doesn't mean that there are individuals in secular society that think its wrong. But generally it has to be seen that secular society allows porn as part of their lifestyles. Thats the same for many issues. Thats why the survey is something that is hard to accept and understand as it isn't a black and white issue. I think you need to go into things a little deeper to gauge the true attitudes and beliefs of people rather than some survey.
Well what was the aim. It seems many on here are talking about moral attitudes towards things like homosexuality, assisted suicide, abortion and morally divisive issues like that from reading some of the posts. So the survey has provoked people to take the meaning as the difference in religious and non religious peoples attitudes towards these issues.
The science of morality has drawn heavily on well-controlled but artificial laboratory settings. To study everyday morality, we repeatedly assessed moral or immoral acts and experiences in a large (N = 1252) sample using ecological momentary assessment. Moral experiences were surprisingly frequent and manifold. Liberals and conservatives emphasized somewhat different moral dimensions. Religious and nonreligious participants did not differ in the likelihood or quality of committed moral and immoral acts. Being the target of moral or immoral deeds had the strongest impact on happiness, whereas committing moral or immoral deeds had the strongest impact on sense of purpose. Analyses of daily dynamics revealed evidence for both moral contagion and moral licensing. In sum, morality science may benefit from a closer look at the antecedents, dynamics, and consequences of everyday moral experience.
Well its hard to say as I am not sure the types of questions were defining peoples morals or not. As I said before feelings to do with harm or fairness ect are not completely to do with morals. Even immoral people can have strong feelings about care and fairness and they may live immoral lives. Plus how do we know the people doing the survey decided what morals were to begin with in a religious sense. If you asked about things like sex and whether it was ok in certain situations it would define morals better than something like fairness which is something that even secular society has laws around. In other words what the poeple doing the survey regarded as morals may not be how Christians see morals. So the repsonses to things like fairness with be similar for all because its more of a general value that we all have anyway and doesn't really have definite differences when it comes to religious beliefs.Other studies have typically examined the issue in the lab. The novel aspect of this study is the naturalistic "everyday life" design.
I question the notion that the results contradict "common sense." I think it's more "common sense" to say that religious and nonreligious individuals are not so far apart when it comes to experiencing moral phenomena. Note, I am using the word "moral" in the descriptive sense. You often seem to forget this.
I understand their purpose and I have read the survey. I am questioning how they did it. It just seems they have talked about some good qualities we all have and not specific enough morals that religious people such as Christians have. Non believers on here are saying that there is no difference in the morals of non religious and religious people. People on here are mentioning things like whether its ok to have assisted suicide or is homosexuality is OK or not. These are the issues that people are bring up from this survey. This is the way they have understood what the survey is saying whether it intended to do this or not. Thats because that is how people define their morals by issues such as these.They tell you what the purpose was! Have you actually read it?
Like how, I dont think there's a lot of difference. Plus I am mainly talking about the western understanding of religion as practiced mostly by the societies where these surveys would be done. If it did include many different religions then it would have to accommodate those difference as it would then add another dimension to the survey. It would then have to define the differences between those religions as well withing the overall difference of non religion and religious people. But I dont think there would be a lot of difference. Most religions agree on a lot of things like same sex, sexual immorality, abortion, marriage, affairs, underage sex, porn ect. There are some groups but I wouldn't call them religions but more sects or cults that allow different views on sex ect. But they are few and not exactly something that mainstream religion agrees with.Religious people also disagree with other religious people on many moral issues. What's your point?
How do you mean. There isn't much you can be specific about. The survey mainly explains a lot of technical info about they ways they measured things. But it doesn't tell you much about the details of the questions they asked. Like I said apart from the qualities they have asked people about in their certain situations these to me are things that anyone would be confronted with and they dont really define anything morally. Even if they get a lot of info on how the people responded you still have to question the qualities as to whether you can class them as morals. They maybe morals according to them but not necessarily to religious people or Christians. The trouble is according to secular society morals can be objective so how can they be specific about morals. How can they use what many Christians regards as Gods objective morals when they dont know or use them in the survey anyway. I think they have used a certain meaning they have used for what is a moral act or not when it just maybe a decent good act that secular society thinks is moral.Given the lack of specificity in your criticism here, I'm going to take a guess and say that you haven't read the paper.
What and who are they. If you mean some weird sect well tech there are religious cults that do this but we all know they are wrong and taking advantage of something. This has nothing to do with morals. And this is what I mean but how the survey hasn't really defined what morals are. Whos version have they used. But I would like to know which religions you are talking about that think porn is OK as a moral as thats news to me.Yes, there are religious people who think that porn is okay.
Well as far as I understand it there is a difference between religious people and non religious peoples morals. This survey hasn't really been clear on what morals are. Harm and fairness to me are not necessarily defining morals but are more like good traits that we all can have even immoral people. The marfia want a fair share of things and will distribute their proceeds from crime out fairly because they care about the family. They dont want harm to come to their own but will kill anyone who harms their friends ect. Thats all subjective and doesn't really define morals.Again, read the study before criticizing it for not doing what it was never intended to do.
I already have the paper in PFD format.
Well thats exactly what I was saying about this survey as it was contradicting other surveys and what many thought about religious and non religious people and morals. Besides if this is the case I thought you said they had the methods down to a fine scientific process. Sounds like they need to go back to the drawing board.Could be how the questions are framed. Could be the time period was different and attitudes changed in regards to the question.
For example, numerous polls have been done to gauge how many people agree with the TOE, by different polling organizations. The results have been fairly similar and any difference could be in question design and how people interpreted the question.
Well thats exactly what I was saying about this survey as it was contradicting other surveys and what many thought about religious and non religious people and morals. Besides if this is the case I thought you said they had the methods down to a fine scientific process. Sounds like they need to go back to the drawing board.
Well thats where your wrong. I am not saying that Christians have better morals. I am saying they have different morals. That is something that I would have thought was fairly obvious with how Christians and non Christians clash with things like homosexuality, sexual immorality and abortion. If you look at what I had said throughout all my posts I hadnt once said that Christians have better morals than non Christians.Steve,
I see you want to see what you want to see and are choosing to not educate yourself objectively on this topic.
If the results of this study, would have supported what you want to believe (Christians are more moral), would you have questioned the study methods, or just accepted the results as is?
Well thats exactly what I was saying about this survey as it was contradicting other surveys and what many thought about religious and non religious people and morals. Besides if this is the case I thought you said they had the methods down to a fine scientific process. Sounds like they need to go back to the drawing board.
Well thats where your wrong. I am not saying that Christians have better morals. I am saying they have different morals. That is something that I would have thought was fairly obvious with how Christians and non Christians clash with things like homosexuality, sexual immorality and abortion. If you look at what I had said throughout all my posts I hadnt once said that Christians have better morals than non Christians.
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