ST. John Calvin

mont974x4 · Oct 23, 2007

On what verses is the RCC ideal that...
"And so the TITLE SAINT is reserved for those who we can know, by their exemplary holy life on earth, and by manifestations of their sanctity and holliness in heaven."

The Bible says no such thing, the RCC is not charged with appointing sainthood on anyone.

lionroar0 · Oct 23, 2007

On what verses is the RCC ideal that...
"And so the TITLE SAINT is reserved for those who we can know, by their exemplary holy life on earth, and by manifestations of their sanctity and holliness in heaven."

The Bible says no such thing, the RCC is not charged with appointing sainthood on anyone.

The CC does not appoint Sainthood to any one.

It recognises a Saint.

Peace

mont974x4 · Oct 23, 2007

Symantics?

lionroar0 · Oct 23, 2007

Symantics?

More of a communication problem.

The CC does not make a Saint. God does. What the CC does is examine the person's life and see if they were sactified in this life.

If they were, then they are canonised as a Saint.

There is a formal process for this.

This link provides a summary explanation of the process.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/saints/process.asp

When the CC Canonizes a person as a Saint. It it simply stating that She recognizes that the person has been made a Saint by God and we know about it

There are Saints that we don't know about. That does not make them any less of a Saint. We just don't know that they are a Saint.

Their Sainthood is not dependent on the recognition of the CC.

Peace

simonthezealot · Oct 23, 2007

lionroar0 said:
When the CC Canonizes a person as a Saint. It it simply stating that She recognizes that the person has been made a Saint by God and we know about it

There are Saints that we don't know about. That does not make them any less of a Saint. We just don't know that they are a Saint.

Their Sainthood is not dependent on the recognition of the CC.

Peace

That in mind then, we are stating we recognise that these men were made as Saints by God.
No harm No foul...You see these guys were incredibly important tools of God to help in our right understanding of Christianity! They are truly saints to US! That it offends some of you guys, SORRY!

mont974x4 · Oct 23, 2007

What does Romans 1, 1 Cor 1, Eph 2, Col 1, and Jude tell us about who is a saint?

lionroar0 · Oct 23, 2007

That in mind then, we are stating we recognise that these men were made as Saints by God.
No harm No foul...You see these guys were incredibly important tools of God to help in our right understanding of Christianity! They are truly saints to US! That it offends some of you guys, SORRY!

Did they life a virtous and heroic christian life? Did any one examine their lives and determine that God did indeed santified them in this life?

No they were most certainly not made Saints by God in this life.

Peace

mont974x4 · Oct 23, 2007

lionroar0 said:
Did they life a virtous and heroic christian life? Did any one examine their lives and determine that God did indeed santified them in this life?

No they were most certainly not made Saints by God.

Peace

And who says we have to examine them for such a title?

Some would certainly say that they did, in fact, live heroic lives.....virtuous? Christ alone can claim that.

simonthezealot · Oct 23, 2007

lionroar0 said:
No they were most certainly not made Saints by God.

Peace

The JS of Christ? LR that's were your sitting? I didn't know that

lionroar0 · Oct 24, 2007

The JS of Christ? LR that's were your sitting? I didn't know that

They are not Saints. Plain and simple. And no one can prove that they are.

Peace

lionroar0 · Oct 24, 2007

And who says we have to examine them for such a title?

Then perhaps Hitler should be a Saint or Stalin. Why examine their lives?

Some would certainly say that they did, in fact, live heroic lives.....virtuous? Christ alone can claim that.

The Saints do not claim a virtuous life either.

Peace

IamAdopted · Oct 24, 2007

lionroar0 said:
Did they life a virtous and heroic christian life? Did any one examine their lives and determine that God did indeed santified them in this life?

No they were most certainly not made Saints by God in this life.

Peace

Says who? You whom think you can examine and judge who belongs to Christ? They were used mightly of God. They were indeed men of the faith just as Paul and Peter were.. It is not up to any denomination to recognize the saints.. Jesus said we shall know them.. By what? Their fruits. Not if they went to confession on a daily basis or partook of the Eucachrist. We can see in the scripture what the fruit of the Holy Spirit is.. We do not need men of any type to recongize and examine them..God does that Himself..

Benedicta00 · Oct 24, 2007

mont974x4 said:
Symantics?

Just another way to dismiss what we are saying. It is semantics to you, because you donlt want to believe us. but you're wrong. It is what we are telling you it is, it's not semantics.

simonthezealot · Oct 24, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Says who? You whom think you can examine and judge who belongs to Christ? They were used mightly of God. They were indeed men of the faith just as Paul and Peter were.. It is not up to any denomination to recognize the saints.. Jesus said we shall know them.. By what? Their fruits. Not if they went to confession on a daily basis or partook of the Eucachrist. We can see in the scripture what the fruit of the Holy Spirit is.. We do not need men of any type to recongize and examine them..God does that Himself..

mont974x4 · Oct 24, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
Just another way to dismiss what we are saying. It is semantics to you, because you donlt want to believe us. but you're wrong. It is what we are telling you it is, it's not semantics.

My point is that the RCC has a process for determining sainthood through a series of examinations...incorruptible etc...that has no biblical basis. At least, no one has shown me any and I haven't found it...which is why I asked for it a couple of times.

If Stalin and Hitler repented and were saved before they died, then they are saints, just as any one else who has been called by God to be one....all who are saved are saints. Calvin and Luther and anyone else who have been Christs through the ages are, in fact, saints regardless of what the RCC says about them, no matter how much people want to slander them, and no matter how imperfect they were in their earthly lives.

Our salvation, our sainthood, has very little to do with what we do and basically everything to do with what He does.

simonthezealot · Oct 24, 2007

mont974x4 said:
Our salvation, our sainthood, has very little to do with what we do and basically everything to do with what He does.

Right on Mont!

Yeznik · Oct 24, 2007

mont974x4 said:
My point is that the RCC has a process for determining sainthood through a series of examinations...incorruptible etc...that has no biblical basis. At least, no one has shown me any and I haven't found it...which is why I asked for it a couple of times.

If Stalin and Hitler repented and were saved before they died, then they are saints, just as any one else who has been called by God to be one....all who are saved are saints. Calvin and Luther and anyone else who have been Christs through the ages are, in fact, saints regardless of what the RCC says about them, no matter how much people want to slander them, and no matter how imperfect they were in their earthly lives.

Our salvation, our sainthood, has very little to do with what we do and basically everything to do with what He does.

Granted if Stalin and Hitler repented before they died then it is possible that they are saved.

But the issue within Calvinism is that if Stalin and Hitler were created by God to destroy mankind, and basically they lived their lives according to what God made them for that would make them obedient to Gods Will, simply because they are doing what they were designed to do. Basically, they were obedient to God and their reward is Hell.

The nonsensical logic in Calvinism is that if Stalin and Hitler lived to build mankind then they would be doing contrary to the Will of God.

mont974x4 · Oct 24, 2007

I thought the topic of the thread was Calvin and sainthood?

Rick Otto · Oct 24, 2007

Yeznik said:
But the issue within Calvinism is that if Stalin and Hitler were created by God to destroy mankind, and basically they lived their lives according to what God made them for that would make them obedient to God’s Will, simply because they are doing what they were designed to do.

Wrong.
Obedience isn't an ingredient in predestination.
Even disobedience is predestined.
You turn sense into nonsense by trying to define disobedience as obedience.

You harbor definitions that prevent you from being able to concieve of predestination.

Kristos · Oct 24, 2007

Rick Otto said:
Wrong.
Obedience isn't an ingredient in predestination.
Even disobedience is predestined.
You turn sense into nonsense by trying to define disobedience as obedience.

You harbor definitions that prevent you from being able to concieve of predestination.

It must have been predestined that he can't understand predestination

ST. John Calvin

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