St. Joan of Arc

Chesterton, what do the Eastern Orthodox believe about Joan of Arc?

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The Orthodox Encyclopedia Online doesn't mention her.

Vince53 said:

The Orthodox Encyclopedia Online doesn't mention her.

Click to expand...

Generally, after the schism, members of the Roman Church are not considered to be in communion with the rest of the Church, so it's highly unlikely any RC's would be regarded as saints.

I hope you like the year 1429, because we will be here for a while.


The Battle of the Herrings. With an encircled English supply train in their grasp, a Scotch-French army bungles their attack, and the English win. France desperately needed the fish for the starving city of Orleans.

It doesn't look good for France. The English and their Burgundian allies control all of northern France, parts of southwestern France, and the city of Paris. The last major French city is Orleans, and the English have it surrounded, and Orleans can't hold out much longer.

And then an illiterate 17 year old girl shows up...

After informing the local French commander about the defeat in the Battle of the Herrings the very day it happens, Joan convinces him to have her escorted to the Dauphin. The Dauphin stands in the crowd while an impersonator tries to deceive Joan, but Joan goes straight to the Dauphin with her claim that God had sent her to put him on the Throne of France.

In my opinión, which could be wrong, Joan had the gift of prophecy. Prophecy is NOT the ability to predict the future; it is the ability to speak God's Word, although it might include predictions of the future. During her brief career, Joan will repeatedly demonstrate that God was telling her what to say.

We return to 1429 and the Siege of Orleans.

A bewildered French Court sends Joan to Catholic authorities, who declare her to be a genuine Catholic, even though they can't explain her voices.

As the figurehead leader of a supply train, Joan sent the English siege commanders the message "Begone, or I will make you go." Fearing overwhelming English armies if they took the northern route to Orleans, the real leaders of the supply train deceived her and circled to the south. Two hundred French boats sailed downriver to get the supplies, and according to the story, the wind reversed after the supplies, Joan, and 200 soldiers were onboard, allowing the convoy to return safely to Orleans.

Wildly contradictory stories indicate that a desperate French leadership allowed her to attend some war councils without making her a real leader, but she kept inspiring groups of military to follow her as she led them from one victory to another.

Interesting siege, but I'm not much concerned with it. I'm American. We have a new Orleans.

The Lifting of the Siege of Orleans.

The English forces surrounding Orleans had a problem: in order to keep out food, they had to stretch their lines around the large city, giving the French a chance to hurl a large force at one area, defeat the outnumbered English, and then retreat to the city to do it again. And so the English build a series of small forts around the city, so the defenders could hold off a French attack long enough for re-enforcements to arrive.

Joan led small forces in rapid attacks on these outposts. She came up with a brilliant strategy: mass all the French cannon at the front gate of the English fort, blow down the gate, charge inside, and capture the fort before English re-enforcements could arrive. Enthusiastic civilian volunteers rapidly threw up bridges and tore down others, enabling the French to move faster than the English could respond.

Seven days after her arrival, Joan had captured all but one English fort. Sorting through wildly contradictory accounts, this is what I THINK happened:

Leading the charge, Joan is shot in the shoulder by an English crossbowman and carried off the field. From their angle, the English though she had been shot in the neck. As the jubilant English celebrated, a ghastly pale Joan led another charge and captured the fort.

The next day, the remaining English forces gathered in a field for a last great battle. They held superior weaponry, armor, artillery, and training. Joan stomped out, accompanied by nobody except God, without a helmet on, and shouted "I have a message from God for the King of England! Turn around and go back to England, or I will bury you in this field! I will wait here for your answer."

The English leaders ordered a retreat, and the legendary Joan of Arc had lifted the Siege of Orleans in only eight days. One source lists it as the 18th most decisive battle in history, and another lists it as the 9th.

Good Heavens, we're still in 1429!

Having lifted the Siege of Orleans, Joan now leads French forces in the Loire Valley Campaign. It takes her six weeks, but she captures every English stronghold. A victorious French nation then crowns the Dauphin as Charles VII, King of France.

And now, having achieved her goal of putting Charles on the Throne, Joan falls apart. She is defeated at Paris and defeated by a minor local ruler.

The idea that "France" is one nation is only a few centuries old. France consisted of several kingdoms, some of them ruled by England. Charles can now accomplish many of his goals through diplomacy, intermarriages, and inheritances, and he wants Joan to go away. Prolonging the war is a risky move for the suffering people of France.

Finally! It is now the year 1430! And for Joan of Arc, it is a year of disaster.

The Hussites were Catholics who wanted to clean up Church corruption, as well as seize land and wealth for themselves. They were opposed by Catholics who suppported the corruption because they wanted to protect their own wealth. Joan sends a message to the Hussites, threatening to kill them if they don't return to the authority of the Catholic Church. This put Joan (and God) on the side of the corrupt Church.

Defeated in battle, Joan is captured by the Burgundians, who sell her to the English, and now she is under the control of the corrupt Catholic Church.

Sometime after Joan's capture, a 10,000 man Hussite army invades Hungary, and a combined army of Catholics marches out to stop them. But with the Hussites surrounded, some Catholic forces hold back because their leaders are jealous of other leaders, and the Hussites win. The battle is still a disaster: 8,00 Hussites and 6,000 Catholics are killed.

We return to 1431, and the infamous trial of Joan of Arc.

In violation of Catholic, English, and French law, Joan faced a panel of English Catholic judges who were already against her. Her request that French Catholic judges be allowed to participate was rejected.

Using high-level language that the illiterate teen-ager didn't understand, they tricked her into waiving her right to appeal to the Pope.

They produced a lengthy document repudiating everything she had claimed. After repeatedly refusing to sign it, Joan was convinced that she would commit a mortal sin if she didn't sign. (She had learned how to sign her name).

But the judges kept finding themselves bewildered by Joan's brilliant answers to difficult theology questions. So they came up with a clever strategy: they would ask her a question that had no correct answer. No matter what Joan replied, she would be wrong.

And so they asked her...

On two occasions, Jesus's opponents asked Him an impossible question. With no correct answer possible, whatever Jesus replied would be wrong. But in both cases, Jesus gave the correct answer.

Unnerved by Joan's brilliant answers to difficult theological questions, her Catholic judges decided to ask Joan an impossible question. They certainly did not realize the Spiritual Power that was behind Joan's words: Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me? Jeremiah 32:27

The Catholic Church teaches that you cannot know for sure that you are going to Heaven. So they decided to ask her "Do you know whether or not you are in God's grace?"

If Joan replied that she was not, then of course she was going to Hell. If she replied "Yes," she would go to Hell for the sin of presumption. If she replied that she didn't know, she would go to Hell because she claimed that she was speaking for God. The University of Paris (which was Catholic) had already declared the question unanswerable, and Catholic scholars had agreed that there was no correct answer. Joan, being illiterate, knew nothing of any of this, and so, whatever answer she gave would be wrong.

Jesus promised those who were arrested for His Name's sake "for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist." Luke 21:15

So they asked Joan if she were in God's grace right now, and without hesitation she replied:


"If I am not, may He put me there; and if I am, may He keep me there."

We are still in 1431

Perhaps prison life was too hard, perhaps she feared being raped, and perhaps she was forced to do it; in prison, Joan of Arc resumes wearing men's clothes (Where did she get them?) and is burned at the stake as a relapsed heretic.

England's Henry VI is crowned King of France. With England still holding large areas of France, Henry's influence there was weak. He was a sincere, pious weakling who was occasionally insane, and during his reign various regents, and even his own wife, actually ruled England.

Once again, the Ottoman Empire breaks through Byzantine defenses and pillages the the Peloponnese Península.This large area of Greece would be an island if not for a narrow strip of land connecting it to the mainland.

After 629 years, the mighty Khmer Empire of Southeast Asia is conquered by Siam (modern Thailand).

"Coyote Who Fasts" becomes King of Texcoco in modern Mexico. A brilliant scholar, he assembles a group of "wise men" who bring in a Golden Age of literature and art. Later historians consider Texcoco "The Athens of the West" as a result.

Count Drácula is born. Yes, he really did exist.

I hope that Joan of Arc's many admirers and sympathizers will forgive me for a blatant commercial, but you're all invited to come over to the Second Millenium thread. All courteous comments, even the ones who disagree with me, are always welcome.