Spiritual sight

mindlight · Apr 14, 2017

What is involved in seeing the risen Christ? Do we have to understand who He is and how the scriptures point to Him before we can see Him for ourselves?

On the road to Emmaus (Luke 24) 2 travellers are joined by Jesus. But they are prevented from seeing him. He joins their discussion where it is as he comes alongside them and they share their depression, disappointment and shock at what essentially they regarded as the failure of the Jesus story. They had expected Jesus to be the one to save Israel but now he was gone and according to the latest reports his tomb was empty and Jesus nowhere to be seen. The thing that amazes me is that they did not understand who Jesus was until he had explained how the scriptures pointed to him lifting them out of their foolishness. Their hearts burned within them as they listened to him explain the scriptures. Then he broke bread with them in the manner of the last supper. At this point their eyes were opened and they could see Jesus.

This passage and others about the accounts of the risen Christ got me thinking about how sight works in the spiritual realm. When we listen to the accounts of false religions there is an extraordinary amount of detail about physical appearance and the details of how people acted in their ordinary lives. The accounts of Mohammed are embarrassingly detailed for instance giving Muslims a protocol for things like going to the toilet. But about the appearance and details of Jesus's habits we know very little. The scriptures focus on an appreciation of who Jesus is and what it means to know Him for each of us.

As the bible says unspiritual men go to extraordinary lengths to describe what they have seen and heard and puff themselves up with all sorts of idle notions. But the distinctive of Christian spiritual sight is understanding and heartfelt obedience to and love of the person of Christ rather than to a set of rules which he demands conformity to.

1) What are the distinctive characteristics of Christian spiritual sight?
2) What needs to happen for us to see Jesus?
3) Why are so many misled by false religion that demands external conformity to rules and idle notions? What is the essence of their blindness?
4) Why does God blind unbelievers and even some Christians to who He is?

miknik5 · Apr 14, 2017

mindlight said:
What is involved in seeing the risen Christ? Do we have to understand who He is and how the scriptures point to Him before we can see Him for ourselves?

On the road to Emmaus (Luke 24) 2 travellers are joined by Jesus. But they are prevented from seeing him. He joins their discussion where it is as he comes alongside them and they share their depression, disappointment and shock at what essentially they regarded as the failure of the Jesus story. They had expected Jesus to be the one to save Israel but now he was gone and according to the latest reports his tomb was empty and Jesus nowhere to be seen. The thing that amazes me is that they did not understand who Jesus was until he had explained how the scriptures pointed to him lifting them out of their foolishness. Their hearts burned within them as they listened to him explain the scriptures. Then he broke bread with them in the manner of the last supper. At this point their eyes were opened and they could see Jesus.

This passage and others about the accounts of the risen Christ got me thinking about how sight works in the spiritual realm. When we listen to the accounts of false religions there is an extraordinary amount of detail about physical appearance and the details of how people acted in their ordinary lives. The accounts of Mohammed are embarrassingly detailed for instance giving Muslims a protocol for things like going to the toilet. But about the appearance and details of Jesus's habits we know very little. The scriptures focus on an appreciation of who Jesus is and what it means to know Him for each of us.

As the bible says unspiritual men go to extraordinary lengths to describe what they have seen and heard and puff themselves up with all sorts of idle notions. But the distinctive of Christian spiritual sight is understanding and heartfelt obedience to and love of the person of Christ rather than to a set of rules which he demands conformity to.

1) What are the distinctive characteristics of Christian spiritual sight?
2) What needs to happen for us to see Jesus?
3) Why are so many misled by false religion that demands external conformity to rules and idle notions? What is the essence of their blindness?
4) Why does God blind unbelievers and even some Christians to who He is?

You missed something in the passage

It was HE who did for those men on the road that we can't do for ourselves

HE opened their mind to the scriptures

Tolworth John · Apr 14, 2017

Christianity is rooted in historical facts, it is not clever made up stories.
So the 'spiritual' Christian learns what the bible teaches, learns what theology teaches and learns not to 'see' but to discern what ios and what is not true.

How does one get to see Jesus?
Why do you need to see him?
Have you never read what Jesus said to Thomas, when he appeared to him?
If your faith is so small and weak by all means seek to see Jesus.
How will the sight of Jesus strengthen your faith, in ten days, months, years time?

Uber Genius · Apr 14, 2017

29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.”
Jn 20:29

com7fy8 · Apr 14, 2017

First, I think a basic of perceiving Jesus comes in loving the way He has us loving. As we discover how He has us caring about people, this helps us appreciate how Jesus is.

I think of how Jesus rebuked the John and James for asking Him if they should call down fire from heaven on ones who rejected them. This gave them a chance to appreciate who and how Jesus really is.

mindlight said:
But about the appearance and details of Jesus's habits we know very little. The scriptures focus on an appreciation of who Jesus is and what it means to know Him for each of us.

Well, if someone is doing things right, you can know that the person will be doing good things

On the other hand . . . if you wrote down all the details of Jesus, environmentalists would be having a fit about how you used up all the trees of this earth in order to make paper for all the books you would need to print

mindlight said:
When we listen to the accounts of false religions there is an extraordinary amount of detail about physical appearance and the details of how people acted in their ordinary lives.

But God's word tells us things which can help us to have better lives and intimate and loving sharing with God and one another, and success in helping people.

Jesus took naps. Matthew 8:23-25

Jesus did not let Martha and her busy stuff get in the way of His sharing so personally with Mary. Luke 10:38-42

Jesus rebuked the disciples who wanted to get revenge on ones who rejected them. Luke 9:51-56

Jesus prayed forgiveness to those who were still busy with hating and cursing and shaming and torturing Jesus. And notice that one criminal hanging with Jesus turned to Jesus after Jesus prayed out the forgiveness > Luke 23:32-43.

mindlight · Apr 14, 2017

Tolworth John said:
Christianity is rooted in historical facts, it is not clever made up stories.
So the 'spiritual' Christian learns what the bible teaches, learns what theology teaches and learns not to 'see' but to discern what ios and what is not true.

How does one get to see Jesus?
Why do you need to see him?
Have you never read what Jesus said to Thomas, when he appeared to him?
If your faith is so small and weak by all means seek to see Jesus.
How will the sight of Jesus strengthen your faith, in ten days, months, years time?

In essence this is the point of the thread. What does it mean to see Jesus? What is spiritual sight and how can we improve ours? The same historical facts were witnessed by hard hearted Pharisees and Romans and unbelievers who never got to understood who Jesus was. Spiritual sight is honest about historical facts but there is something more going on also here. Thomas needed to see and touch Jesus to believe and but Jesus had higher praise for those who believed even against the evidence of their senses.

It seems that the travellers on the road to Emmaus could not see Jesus until they understood who he was. Not a mere prophet but the Messiah, the Son of God anticipated by scripture and the One who shared bread and wine with his people.

mindlight · Apr 14, 2017

com7fy8 said:
First, I think a basic of perceiving Jesus comes in loving the way He has us loving. As we discover how He has us caring about people, this helps us appreciate how Jesus is.

I think of how Jesus rebuked the John and James for asking Him if they should call down fire from heaven on ones who rejected them. This gave them a chance to appreciate who and how Jesus really is.Well, if someone is doing things right, you can know that the person will be doing good things

On the other hand . . . if you wrote down all the details of Jesus, environmentalists would be having a fit about how you used up all the trees of this earth in order to make paper for all the books you would need to print

But God's word tells us things which can help us to have better lives and intimate and loving sharing with God and one another, and success in helping people.

Yes Gods word gives us a basis to understand what it means to love like Jesus and act rightly in His righteousness and it is sufficient in that it gives us all that we need to understand Him as He is.

It is also explains who he is and how he had to suffer on our behalf and before he could ascend to glory. Our picture of Jesus needs to understand that sacrifice on our behalf and the pains he endured for us. Such a vision breaks through worldly thinking that assumes that the great and powerful will merely squash their enemies and that the weak and powerless are irrelevant to the people and things that matter. To see Jesus is to understand him as the scriptures anticipated Him and as He truly is.

mindlight · Apr 14, 2017

miknik5 said:
You missed something in the passage

It was HE who did for those men on the road that we can't do for ourselves

HE opened their mind to the scriptures

On the road to Emmaus a personal encounter with Jesus is described. Personal encounters are between persons. That the person of Christ is of an infinitely greater quality, power, purity, longevity etc does not change the fact that personal consideration is being shown by Christ to these travellers also as people who respond to him. He rebukes them for their foolishness, spends time explaining the scriptures to them and shares bread with them. He did not simply click a button and change them into people who could see Him as He was. True it is God who blinds them to Jesus's identity and their eyes are opened only after the scriptures had been explained to them and bread broken. But spiritual sight is obtained in that encounter with Jesus by people open to Him, willing to have their hearts set on fire by Him and with questions about events to do with Jesus that had left them confused and defeated.

mindlight · Apr 14, 2017

John Piper described this notion of seeing Jesus very well:

Jesus speaks of three ways of seeing himself, each better than the one before.

There were the people who saw him, the incarnate Son of God, and did not see the self-authenticating reality of his divine glory. They only saw a teacher or a prophet. “Seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand” (Matthew 13:13).
Then there were the prophets and righteous people in the Old Testament who did not see the incarnate form of the Son of God, but did see his divine glory. “Truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it” (Matthew 13:17).

That is, they did not see the physical form of God’s glory in the incarnate Son. But they did see his glory. Some saw it only with the eyes of their hearts through the revelation of God in his word (1 Samuel 3:21). But others were granted to see his glory in a more direct way. “Isaiah he saw [Christ’s] glory and spoke of him” (John 12:41), referring to the vision of Isaiah 6:1–4.
Finally, there were those who saw both the incarnate physical body of the Son of God and, in him, the reality of the divine glory. “But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear” (Matthew 13:16). “Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 16:17).

Can We See Jesus Better Than the Saints in the Bible? | Desiring God

Greg J. · Apr 14, 2017

mindlight said:
...
1) What are the distinctive characteristics of Christian spiritual sight?

Spiritual sight (and insight) is something that God grants, but you can ask for it and keep asking.

mindlight said:
2) What needs to happen for us to see Jesus?

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” (John 14:21, 1984 NIV)

But it has to be combined with faith. After reading this verse, do you believe Jesus will show himself to you if you are obedient? (note that Jesus knew no one could be 100% successful at that all the time when he said that)

mindlight said:
3) Why are so many misled by false religion that demands external conformity to rules and idle notions? What is the essence of their blindness?

The great and awesome and unique thing about God's salvation is that because we can't do anything to make ourselves worthy of salvation even a tiny, little bit, we just have to accept his grace. The gospel is, "Jesus died and our sins are forgiven," and those who believe that are saved. Satan is blinding people to the state of the truth. The truth is not dependent on any action; it is already finished. False religions must, out of necessity (to be false) must corrupt our understanding of the state of things. The most fundamental corruption is that the state of things is not a state, but something that is conditional.

The essence of the blindness is that because of our sinful nature, we are limited to what we can see with our fleshly eyes and what we perceive in our darkened spirits and minds (derived from Satan), put another way, we have a very damaged ability to perceive spiritual truth (evil suppresses truth, Romans 1:18, and we are fully tainted with sin). Darkness cannot see light. It is only because we are created in God's image and by God's grace that we can see truth.

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4, 1984 NIV)

Perhaps you've noticed that without God's grace we can't even believe God exists even though He says the evidence is all around us (Romans 1:19-20). Recognizing one's limitations (a big part of humility) and asking why is a beginning toward the truth, which is available to everyone.

mindlight said:
4) Why does God blind unbelievers and even some Christians to who He is?

God is sovereign over all and he decided everything that will happen, even though we have a free will that is real as that unfolds. God speaks from both perspectives in Scripture. When Scripture says God blinded someone, it is always is a reference to the result of sin. God does not cause evil, but he judges evil (note that both look the same on earth). In God's capacity as sustainer of all things, he works the natural consequences of sin to be death. But that doesn't mean that's what he desires. It should be understood as the way God made the universe to work. When your friend lets go of a bowling ball over your foot, it isn't right to think of what happens next as God choosing to smash it down on your foot.

mindlight · Apr 15, 2017

Greg J. said:
Spiritual sight (and insight) is something that God grants, but you can ask for it and keep asking.

Many are invited but not all receive this grace. So the willingness and openess to receive is also a factor.

Whoever has my commands and obeys them

Click to expand...

, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

Click to expand...

(John 14:21, 1984 NIV)

But it has to be combined with faith. After reading this verse, do you believe Jesus will show himself to you if you are obedient? (note that Jesus knew no one could be 100% successful at that all the time when he said that)

Of course I agree with the verse. But it still leaves open the question of obedient to what. If you cannot see Jesus how do you know what to obey. It seems to me Jesus comes to us where we are. Sometimes we are given little choices. Our obedience in these small things leads to a gradual improvement in our perception of his will. Sometimes we are given an all or nothing grand choice that is the difference between light and darkness. Many Christians make the little choices but continue to struggle through a grey swamp where it is not always clear what the way forward is. They see the path only dimly. The bible promises that one day we shall see clearly. But for those of us who want to see more now that just deepens the yearning for improved spiritual sight and the awareness of where we must still be blind.

The great and awesome and unique thing about God's salvation is that because we can't do anything to make ourselves worthy of salvation even a tiny, little bit, we just have to accept his grace. The gospel is, "Jesus died and our sins are forgiven," and those who believe that are saved. Satan is blinding people to the state of the truth. The truth is not dependent on any action; it is already finished. False religions must, out of necessity (to be false) must corrupt our understanding of the state of things. The most fundamental corruption is that the state of things is not a state, but something that is conditional.

The essence of the blindness is that because of our sinful nature, we are limited to what we can see with our fleshly eyes and what we perceive in our darkened spirits and minds (derived from Satan), put another way, we have a very damaged ability to perceive spiritual truth (evil suppresses truth, Romans 1:18, and we are fully tainted with sin). Darkness cannot see light. It is only because we are created in God's image and by God's grace that we can see truth.

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4, 1984 NIV)

Perhaps you've noticed that without God's grace we can't even believe God exists even though He says the evidence is all around us (Romans 1:19-20). Recognizing one's limitations (a big part of humility) and asking why is a beginning toward the truth, which is available to everyone.

God is sovereign over all and he decided everything that will happen, even though we have a free will that is real as that unfolds. God speaks from both perspectives in Scripture. When Scripture says God blinded someone, it is always is a reference to the result of sin. God does not cause evil, but he judges evil (note that both look the same on earth). In God's capacity as sustainer of all things, he works the natural consequences of sin to be death. But that doesn't mean that's what he desires. It should be understood as the way God made the universe to work. When your friend lets go of a bowling ball over your foot, it isn't right to think of what happens next as God choosing to smash it down on your foot.

I want nothing to do with Satan and yet I like most believers cannot see perfectly. God by his grace is capable of opening all his childrens eyes. If I ask for light why am I still in darkness. Does not the Lord delight in giving his children good gifts. If I ask for a gift will he give me a snake. Where there is sin in our lives cannot he convict us to repentance and give us the strength to make that stick.

Greg J. · Apr 15, 2017

Greg J. said:
Spiritual sight (and insight) is something that God grants, but you can ask for it and keep asking.

mindlight said:
Many are invited but not all receive this grace. So the willingness and openess to receive is also a factor.

Yes. Those are attributes of trusting him.

Greg J. said:
Whoever has my commands and obeys them
, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” (John 14:21, 1984 NIV)

But it has to be combined with faith. After reading this verse, do you believe Jesus will show himself to you if you are obedient? (note that Jesus knew no one could be 100% successful at that all the time when he said that)

mindlight said:
Of course I agree with the verse. But it still leaves open the question of obedient to what. If you cannot see Jesus how do you know what to obey. It seems to me Jesus comes to us where we are. Sometimes we are given little choices. Our obedience in these small things leads to a gradual improvement in our perception of his will. Sometimes we are given an all or nothing grand choice that is the difference between light and darkness. Many Christians make the little choices but continue to struggle through a grey swamp where it is not always clear what the way forward is. They see the path only dimly. The bible promises that one day we shall see clearly. But for those of us who want to see more now that just deepens the yearning for improved spiritual sight and the awareness of where we must still be blind.

This is a very good question. We are commanded to keep in step with the Spirit, but if we are not aware of the will of the Spirit, what then? The Holy Spirit always guides us within the framework of moral goodness, which is revealed to us through Scripture. And we have enough Scripture to learn to understand and apply that it can take a long time before we can reliably interpret any leading we may perceive in the spirit.

If you become someone who is keeping in step with morality as revealed in Scripture, then you will find that you are in fact keeping in step with the Holy Spirit. You don't need to be conscious of the presence of the Holy Spirit for that. The path to that is (1) choosing [and possibly struggling] to always be obedient and (2) struggling with Scripture to understand God's will so you can be obedient. This is the path God wants us all on, because that's what is best for us in the long-term in this life (e.g., Galatians 5:22-23, Philippians 4:7), what makes as much of God's will be done on earth as possible (e.g., people being saved), and what earns us the most eternal glory/reward.

Note that things such as Mosaic ceremonial Laws do not represent moral goodness, which is not the same as saying they are not commands. The 10 Commandments are examples of commands to be morally good. We become aware of the will of God through the renewing of our mind (Romans 12:2) which is accomplished by doing Romans 12:1. Translation: be obedient to God as best you can. Study Scripture and always apply it to whatever you face. God will lead you to understanding regardless of what misunderstandings you may have; the important thing is to keep moving forward in obedience. People that are somewhat far along in stopping sinning sometimes make the mistake of thinking their goal on earth is to "stop sinning," when in fact the goal is to worship God with all areas of our lives, which includes loving God and one another by spending hours and days doing the deeds that bring people and Jesus closer together. Jesus said the following in the middle of a passage where he was actually sending his disciples out to preach the coming kingdom of God:

He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. (Luke 10:2, 1984 NIV)

The golden rule can aid in identifying what is a moral imperative. One should take the view that everything we do will affect generations to come and only God knows the future and what is best for them in regard to our present choices and behavior, and condensed that path into the Bible.

mindlight said:
I want nothing to do with Satan and yet I like most believers cannot see perfectly. God by his grace is capable of opening all his childrens eyes. If I ask for light why am I still in darkness. Does not the Lord delight in giving his children good gifts. If I ask for a gift will he give me a snake. Where there is sin in our lives cannot he convict us to repentance and give us the strength to make that stick.

When we are born again, we receive the inheritance promised in spirit and that is finished.

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, (Ephesians 2:6, 1984 NIV)

However, we only experience the truth according to our faith. (e.g., Matthew 9:29)

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. (Colossians 3:1-4, 1984 NIV)

The bolded phrases are Paul's instructions in this part of Colossians and the verses around them are explanations of them and explanations of the results. When a person's heart is set on heavenly things as he or she lives their lives, she cultivates a spiritual perspective, one example being to find the morally good path through everything one faces.

Our life is "hidden" because we are not fully experiencing who we are in Christ, because our faith is not perfect—and is in fact usually extremely poor. (Remember our faith is a gift from God, not something we can drum up, although God will grant faith in response to taking obedience seriously.)

You have spiritual blindness even after asking God for light, because your request is a request for sanctification, which is a lifetime process of the veil being removed as you experience becoming more like Christ.

(Btw, note the relationship between the last verse [Colossians 3:4] and the sometimes-described-as-not-understandable 1 Corinthians 13:12.)

miknik5 · Apr 15, 2017

mindlight said:
On the road to Emmaus a personal encounter with Jesus is described. Personal encounters are between persons. That the person of Christ is of an infinitely greater quality, power, purity, longevity etc does not change the fact that personal consideration is being shown by Christ to these travellers also as people who respond to him. He rebukes them for their foolishness, spends time explaining the scriptures to them and shares bread with them. He did not simply click a button and change them into people who could see Him as He was. True it is God who blinds them to Jesus's identity and their eyes are opened only after the scriptures had been explained to them and bread broken. But spiritual sight is obtained in that encounter with Jesus by people open to Him, willing to have their hearts set on fire by Him and with questions about events to do with Jesus that had left them confused and defeated.

HE opened the scriptures concerning HIMSELF

HE revealed to them what was hidden in THE WORD concerning HIM

They didn't know who HE was until HE revealed HIMSELF in the breaking of the bread

When Peter preached THE GOSPEL, there was indeed an heart response at the hearing of THE GOSPEL

Their hearts were pricked

That does not happen to all men
Only those who hear and receive THE WORD as it should be heard and received

GOD"s TRUTH and TESTIMONY concerning THE SON of GOD who came forth from GOD and into THE WORLD as THE ONE planned from the beginning before the world ever was

miknik5 · Apr 15, 2017

The call of the prophets was always the same:

IF....today you hear HIS VOICE

Harden not your hearts

It was a turning away from and a turning back to THE LIVING GOD

And that is exactly GOD's WORK

By the NEW COVENANT we are given a NEW SPIRIT and a NEW heart to know HIM

(It was indeed GOD who through the prophet Isaiah said...make the hearts of these people fat)

Those who hear the VOICE of the SON of GOD are made new

This is why CHRIST pointed to the prophecy of Isaiah

Not because all will hear HIS VOICE and believe

But because not all will hear HIS VOICE and believe

And in those who do not hear, in them is the prophecy of Isaiah fulfilled:

Be ever seeing but never seeing, ever hearing but never hearing...lest they should understand with THE HEART....TURN...and HE SHOULD HEAL THEM

Who will "turn" if they don't believe they need healing?

miknik5 · Apr 15, 2017

Greg J. said:
Yes. Those are attributes of trusting him.

This is a very good question. We are commanded to keep in step with the Spirit, but if we are not aware of the will of the Spirit, what then? The Holy Spirit always guides us within the framework of moral goodness, which is revealed to us through Scripture. And we have enough Scripture to learn to understand and apply that it can take a long time before we can reliably interpret any leading we may perceive in the spirit.

If you become someone who is keeping in step with morality as revealed in Scripture, then you will find that you are in fact keeping in step with the Holy Spirit. You don't need to be conscious of the presence of the Holy Spirit for that. The path to that is (1) choosing [and possibly struggling] to always be obedient and (2) struggling with Scripture to understand God's will so you can be obedient. This is the path God wants us all on, because that's what is best for us in the long-term in this life (e.g., Galatians 5:22-23, Philippians 4:7), what makes as much of God's will be done on earth as possible (e.g., people being saved), and what earns us the most eternal glory/reward.

Note that things such as Mosaic ceremonial Laws do not represent moral goodness, which is not the same as saying they are not commands. The 10 Commandments are examples of commands to be morally good. We become aware of the will of God through the renewing of our mind (Romans 12:2) which is accomplished by doing Romans 12:1. Translation: be obedient to God as best you can. Study Scripture and always apply it to whatever you face. God will lead you to understanding regardless of what misunderstandings you may have; the important thing is to keep moving forward in obedience. People that are somewhat far along in stopping sinning sometimes make the mistake of thinking their goal on earth is to "stop sinning," when in fact the goal is to worship God with all areas of our lives, which includes loving God and one another by spending hours and days doing the deeds that bring people and Jesus closer together. Jesus said the following in the middle of a passage where he was actually sending his disciples out to preach the coming kingdom of God:

He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. (Luke 10:2, 1984 NIV)

The golden rule can aid in identifying what is a moral imperative. One should take the view that everything we do will affect generations to come and only God knows the future and what is best for them in regard to our present choices and behavior, and condensed that path into the Bible.

When we are born again, we receive the inheritance promised in spirit and that is finished.

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, (Ephesians 2:6, 1984 NIV)

However, we only experience the truth according to our faith. (e.g., Matthew 9:29)

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. (Colossians 3:1-4, 1984 NIV)

The bolded phrases are Paul's instructions in this part of Colossians and the verses around them are explanations of them and explanations of the results. When a person's heart is set on heavenly things as he or she lives their lives, she cultivates a spiritual perspective, one example being to find the morally good path through everything one faces.

Our life is "hidden" because we are not fully experiencing who we are in Christ, because our faith is not perfect—and is in fact usually extremely poor. (Remember our faith is a gift from God, not something we can drum up, although God will grant faith in response to taking obedience seriously.)

You have spiritual blindness even after asking God for light, because your request is a request for sanctification, which is a lifetime process of the veil being removed as you experience becoming more like Christ.

(Btw, note the relationship between the last verse [Colossians 3:4] and the sometimes-described-as-not-understandable 1 Corinthians 13:12.)

The veil was removed in CHRIST who entered in as our forerunner and the anchor

Faith is faith. Even faith the size of a mustard seed is faith

IF...it is directed in and on CHRIST JESUS alone

And the WILL of GOD was clearly declared in John 6

Tolworth John · Apr 18, 2017

[QUOTE="mindlight, post: 71128019, member: "The same historical facts were witnessed by hard hearted Pharisees and Romans and unbelievers who never got to understood who Jesus was. Spiritual sight is honest about historical facts but there is something more going on also here."

Except they were not willing to trust God, to believe what they had seen.

If we are willing to trust God, to believe what he has said in the biblethen we are seeing spiritualy.

There are no higher levals of Christianity for those who 'see Jesus'.

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