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dad said:With God, all things are possible. What is impossible we can think of, when we live forever, fly, walk through walls, 'talk' to animals, eat if we want, or not if we don't, same with sleep. Explore, and maybe help populate the furthest places in the universe, time travel, rule the world, live in a city of purest gold fifteen hundred miles high, long and wide, eat from the tree of life,have a wall, some several thousand miles long, and about 25 stories high, made of 2 story layers of precious stones, will be together with our departed loved ones, and even pets, and explore the mysteries of the universe! These are just some of the things I believe will be going on, as well as sex, see through clothes, indestructible, imortal bodies, flying horses, all tears wiped away, and no more sickness or death, and so on!
So it isn't easy to think of some impossibility there. Perhaps something evil, or death, or such, would be impossible there.
Nathan Poe said:So the short answer is "no." Studying this world or the next through Spiritual Science cannot eliminate any possibilities, and thus cannot help us arrive at the truth in any way, shape, or form.
Thank you.
Numenor said:Precisely. This split/merge explanation is just another version of 'Godddiditt!!1!'
I couldn't say, never heard that one before. Jesus came down, and was tortured and killed to save them, and all men, from a mistake our fathers had made.Grizzly said:I guess this is opposed to teaching children that they are all born as moral degenerates who are disgusting in the eyes of God?
I never heard that one either. We were born in a world of sin and death, of course, just look around, in case you thought you were in paradise. Jesus says He will save all who ask Him to. Many who have gotten to know Him, realize that the torture would be in staying seperate from Him even longer.It's better to teach them that they are all born with this horrible stain called "original sin" and that makes them worthy of eternal torture? I think I would rather live on a meaningless speck and consider myself just another animal.
Fair enough. One does go by one's experiences, to a large degree, though. I have seen what I consider 'good' people who were seeminly quite insane, maybe thinking they saw angels, or something in the air, or on poles, or whatever. Pretty sad, I have no idea why.Anectodatal evidence doesn't prove much. I have seen people go crazy with guilt that they have somehow displeased a nonexistant god. I have a brother suffering from schizoprhenia who constantly wonders what he has done to anger God so much and is racked with guilt and depression. But again, it doesn't prove much, other than people can lose touch with reality whether they believe in God or not.
I have seen also what I consider to be people who have not the love of God in them, and seem to have a bad spirit, swearing, perhaps harming themselves in some way, or a threat to others, etc. I found that the latter was much worse.
Well, whether one says Goddidn't do it, or that He did, we must look at the evidences. When it gets to the unknown, we need to look at who's guess has most merit!Numenor said:Precisely. This split/merge explanation is just another version of 'Godddiditt!!1!'
No.Numenor said:Out of body experience?
dad said:Well, whether one says Goddidn't do it, or that He did, we must look at the evidences. When it gets to the unknown, we need to look at who's guess has most merit!
When such a wonderful world exists, why would eliminating possibilities be of any great concern?Nathan Poe said:So the short answer is "no." Studying this world or the next through Spiritual Science cannot eliminate any possibilities, and thus cannot help us arrive at the truth in any way, shape, or form.
Thank you.
Jet Black said:with all that gold and precious stones, the stuff must be utterly worthless. I would much rather live in a nice little cottage in the countryside with a stream bottomed with ordinary pebbles than in a city made of solid gold thousands of miles high, wide and long surounded by "precious" stones. (if I have a hundred million tonnes of cut diamonds as big as your fist, every single one of them would be nearly worthless)
dad said:When such a wonderful world exists, why would eliminating possibilities be of any great concern?
Here, faced with the barrage of PO speculations, that somehow missed putting the creator in the equation, we do need to eliminate some possibilities.
How you think one is suppose to run around heaven eliminating possibilities is beyond me!
dad said:Well, whether one says Goddidn't do it, or that He did, we must look at the evidences. When it gets to the unknown, we need to look at who's guess has most merit!
That seach is here. In heaven we will live with the truth, and not seek it. Doesn't mean there won't be lots of exciting things to keep learning, after all, we are not God.Nathan Poe said:To find the truth, of course. Have you forgotten your own words?
On the contrary, it specializes in just that! Here, where the PO demands it be done, not in a perfect merged universe where running around trying to find something impossible might garnish a laugh!Which you've already admitted spiritual science cannot do.
No, but don't you wish! I find it very useful. Dismissing decay, getting a grip on gravitation, sillifying the speck, understanding the unknown, and so much more. Explaining why the flood was actually real, and the past different from the weird claims of the active imaginations of the PO crowd, why the earth is as old as the bible indicates, and just about anything you could throw at me.So spiritual science is utterly worthless, in this world and the next one.
A fairly new possible example of this might be in the question of endogenous retroviral insertions.
Someone had asked how more than one species could have shared a virus, and offered evolution as what the poor soul thought was one possible answer.
With people and creatures having real long lifespans in our past, in pre flood, pre split conditions, I don't see why things would much resemble the way they now work, in that there was more time for that type of thing to happen, for example. We don't know if our ability to resist virus' was better then. With living many centuries, this would see a logical conclusion. Even now, some may be carriers of a disease, but not get it. Could there have been a more condusive world then for these kind of things to be able to cross over than now? Certainly. How, exactly, well, since the merge is involved here, we would have to know how the spiritual and physical together work, to get a good answer. On the darker side, before the flood, remember men had gotten quite wicked. I shudder to think of how they may have caught some diseases! AS always, the key to understanding things of the past, is to know it was different, and the mistake men make, is to assume they were the same!
If avian flu does jump to humans, by the way, will this mean we are decanded from them!
dad said:That seach is here. In heaven we will live with the truth, and not seek it. Doesn't mean there won't be lots of exciting things to keep learning, after all, we are not God.
On the contrary, it specializes in just that! Here, where the PO demands it be done, not in a perfect merged universe where running around trying to find something impossible might garnish a laugh!
No, but don't you wish! I find it very useful. Dismissing decay, getting a grip on gravitation, sillifying the speck, understanding the unknown, and so much more.
Explaining why the flood was actually real, and the past different from the weird claims of the active imaginations of the PO crowd, why the earth is as old as the bible indicates, and just about anything you could throw at me.
A fairly new possible example of this might be in the question of endogenous retroviral insertions.
Someone had asked how more than one species could have shared a virus, and offered evolution as what the poor soul thought was one possible answer.
With people and creatures having real long lifespans in our past,
in pre flood, pre split conditions, I don't see why things would much resemble the way they now work, in that there was more time for that type of thing to happen, for example.
We don't know if our ability to resist virus' was better then.
With living many centuries,
this would see a logical conclusion. Even now, some may be carriers of a disease, but not get it. Could there have been a more condusive world then for these kind of things to be able to cross over than now?
Certainly. How, exactly, well, since the merge is involved here,
we would have to know how the spiritual and physical together work, to get a good answer.
On the darker side, before the flood, remember men had gotten quite wicked.
I shudder to think of how they may have caught some diseases!
AS always, the key to understanding things of the past, is to know it was different, and the mistake men make, is to assume they were the same!
If avian flu does jump to humans, by the way, will this mean we are decanded from them!
Good thing I didn't do it, then. I just denigrated YOUR idiotic theories, which have nothing to do with the bible and everything to do with your pathetic fear and misunderstanding of science.dad said:To call a belief in the bible evil names is demonic!
Good thing science doesn't teach any of that, then.dad said:What is sick, actually, is teaching children they are living on a meaningless speck in a hopeless, Godless universe, where they have no hope of eternal life, happiness, and love as Jesus promised all who ask would have.
That's nice. Completely irrelevant, but nice. I suppose.dad said:It actually isn't funny, and I have personally seen at least one person, very normal, within only a few months of totally rejecting Jesus, actually go insane, last time I saw him, he was being led on a rope about the size of a dog leash, by a lady through a subway coridor, as, apparently he was insane, and could not go anywhere alone!
And mental illness of the type you evidence sets of alarm bells for me.dad said:That is why negativity like yours sets off alarm bells for me.A
Pot, meet kettle.dad said:No worries as to any point you have, as the wind has long been knocked out of your sails there.
I'd suggest that you keep your insane rubbish to yourself, too, but that ain't gonna happen now, is it?dad said:I would suggest you keep your insults to yourself!
Actually they are well founded on just that, hope you aren't starting to fade on me now....Electric Sceptic said:Good thing I didn't do it, then. I just denigrated YOUR idiotic theories, which have nothing to do with the bible ...
"are living on a meaningless speck in a hopeless, Godless universe, where they have no hope of eternal life, happiness, "Good thing science doesn't teach any of that, then.
Yes, this we thank God for, and focus our fury of the science falsely so called that, in effect, very much does.
You accuse me of mental illness, I briefly brought up what it is, and what causes it quite often. How nice fits in, I guess would only be somewhere in your mind.That's nice. Completely irrelevant, but nice. I suppose.
OK, so I'll take it you have no point, and wish only to cast firebrands here, I'm well protected, so shoot all the mods will let you, I like to see your nature bubbling to the surface here.And mental illness of the type you evidence sets of alarm bells for me.
Pr 26: 18 As a mad man who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death
I, on the other hand march over the remains of the arguements of the opponents, advancing, gaining territory, and have not yet even begun to fight.Pot, meet kettle.
You are a barrel of sweetness.I'd suggest that you keep your insane rubbish to yourself, too, but that ain't gonna happen now, is it?
dad said:Now, looking at eden, we could guess there were, say, a million trees. If roots were up to 100 feet, that would mean each tree would need a hole a few hundred feet deep, wide, and long, to stick it in the ground, times a million! I don't thin God did all that in a day! I give Him more credit than that. He planted the garden, just like, later, Noah planted a vineyard. Suggesting it wasn't planted, but zapped into being does not fit the scripyures near as well!!!
Why couldn't God create through evolution then? You're putting God in a box if you think he didn't speak the trees into existence. In Genesis, God states
11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it." And so it happened: 12 the earth brought forth every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it. God saw how good it was. 13 Evening came, and morning followed--the third day. This plainly states that God spoke the trees into existence.
Well, it's job was to come back with plants for Noah, and there wasn't any, so I guess it need not have come back right then. Ravens do eat a lot of things besides plants, I'd guess!
We don't know that. It was out for what, a week? maybe it was a day's flight away, and when the tree started to grow, simply brought one back to Noah, as was it's job! No sweat.
The point was there was no land! Birds such as crows and doves are not capable of sustained flight for long periods (such as a week). If there was no dry land the raven could not land to feed.
8:8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; [size=-1] [/size]8:9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark. 8:10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
How you imagine that in heaven we will be poor, ill equiped, or have less resources to work with, I don't know. Somehow, you got the wrong bee in your bonnet.Nathan Poe said:And no means to discover them.
Compared to here, impossible will be just a strange concept that used to apply in the physical world of men. Of course there are rules, wonderful loving rules. If you mean merged science rules, well, there you have to wait till we get there, unless we get some little glimpse, and clues here, from the book that will be there, and also is here now, while as nothing physical will survive, the bible the word, will.So, nothing's impossible in a merged universe? No rules whatsoever?
It is there where the study of the spiritual will be, here we are limited to the present physical only, far as our science.And "Spiritual Science" is supposed to explain just that? "There are no rules. The End."
Those who believe, do have access to a wealth of info about how it will work, but for those that don't want to get saved, and come into a knowledge of God, why, what else can they have?
From your perspective that nothing exists outside the box, perhaps.Don't you mean so much less? You certainly haven't done anything useful with Spiritual Science except inflate your own ego.
The point is many have believed in God, and the bible, and thought that there was no way that science could have been wrong, so maybe God was wrong. I simply try to provide what really happened, regardless if the POers can prove or disprove it, the important thing is that science cannot challenge it, and that the bible supports it as well, and the evidences we see. All that is left to moan, and whine, is the evos, who cannot do anything else now.Without a means to confirm or disprove any of it. What's the point?
You not liking it, really doesn't amount to the dust in the balances, since you weren't there. Your only point can be that it doesn't happen now, which is exactly as the split/merge predicts, because, we are in a physical only world now.Unsupported and unprovable.
I see enough to realize that many things were possible in that pre flood world. Not even a hiccup of a challenge in this one.There's much you don't see. What of it?
No, if you remember we were on the road to the grave back then as well, it was just a longer road! The only spiritual element the split/merge sees, is not in biological life, but in the still merged universe itself. The world itself then would have been both, physical, and spiritual, but fallen man, and sadly, all life on earth as well had been introduced to death.Why wouldn't it be? Remember, we'd be fighting off Spiritual virii back then remember?
You can't know that things in this vastly different world were not more condusive to crossovers. Whether aided by some type of vile affections, or some greater resistance, perhaps, where the virus got in, but was killed quickly, or ???? So many new things in a merged pre flood past are possible, your only hope would be to prove the bible is a lie, really, and do it without the aid of a cave man level science (as regards the spiritual)!meaningless.
What you say is falsified by the bible, God didn't wipe em out for kicks, you know.Unsupported and unprovable.
For you, unless you turn to God, yes, quite. His people do have access to glimpse of the spiritual, however, so this is not true for us.Which is impossible until/unless the merge actuall happens, so Spiritual Science has no answers to give.
No, well supported, in that many admit they do base all on the present processes and PO universe. The fact they can't prove or disprove the realities of the past in the light of the bible, except by this belief only in some future and past physical only universe, means nothing at all, since that belief is totally unsupportable and unprovable!!!Unsupported and unprovable.
Good point, I also shudder to think how some men now catch diseases!Virii and bacteria, same as now, perhaps?
It was meant to be humorous, if the bird flu spreads to man, and we share the same virii, or whatnot, does this mean we came from birds!?What are you blathering about?
BananaSlug said:dad said:Why couldn't God create through evolution then? You're putting God in a box if you think he didn't speak the trees into existence. In Genesis, God states
11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it." And so it happened: 12 the earth brought forth every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it. God saw how good it was. 13 Evening came, and morning followed--the third day. This plainly states that God spoke the trees into existence.
The point was there was no land! Birds such as crows and doves are not capable of sustained flight for long periods (such as a week). If there was no dry land the raven could not land to feed.
8:8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 8:9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark. 8:10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
OK, so there are several possibilities, since you see somewhat worried about the birds here.
Crows seem to like the sea a bit, and are pretty smart. Was there something it could have eaten in this water world for a few days? Was there some dead whale carcass floating, or log, or something it may have found rest on? Lastly, maybe the poor thing died? I don't see a problem really, in the slightest.
No, they are not, as witness the fact that no other christian on this forum agrees with your insanity. Your whacko notions are based only on YOUR ideas.dad said:Actually they are well founded on just that, hope you aren't starting to fade on me now....
This was in relation to your claim that science teaches that we "are living on a meaningless speck in a hopeless, Godless universe, where they have no hope of eternal life, happiness." Once again, you show your complete ignorance of science. Science teaches none of the above.dad said:Yes, this we thank God for, and focus our fury of the science falsely so called that, in effect, very much does.
No, you brought up an irrelevant story. The fact that you think it relates to anything being discussed is evidence enough of your mental state.dad said:You accuse me of mental illness, I briefly brought up what it is, and what causes it quite often. How nice fits in, I guess would only be somewhere in your mind.
There are no points to be made. You have demonstrated that you are impervious to logic, reasoning, fact, and knowledge. It is not possible to argue meaningfully with you, because you simply cannot do it.dad said:OK, so I'll take it you have no point, and wish only to cast firebrands here, I'm well protected, so shoot all the mods will let you, I like to see your nature bubbling to the surface here.
No, you don't. The fact that you think you do is part of your delusion. Your posts merely make you look like either (a) a parody or (b) someone who is seriously mentally illl.dad said:I, on the other hand march over the remains of the arguements of the opponents, advancing, gaining territory, and have not yet even begun to fight.
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