Speaking in Tongues

shadrach_ said:

Why is this actually formally forbidden by the Presbyterian Church?

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That's actually a pretty broad question. Perhaps too broad. In my own Presbyterian denomination, the question is left up to the leadership (Session) of the individual congregations. Some of our congregations are cessationalists, and some are openly charismatic.

Generally speaking though, Presbyterians are known to emphasise decency and order in their worship services. We subscribe to what is called "The Regulative Principle of Worship". That is to say that we believe that the scriptures have told us how we are to worship God, what is pleasing to Him, and what is not pleasing to Him. It is expressed in many ways, and there is not monolithic agreement. Some Presbyterian denominations forbid the "trimmings" of church, (Robes, stained glass windows and such) and even go so far as to forbid instrumental music in the worship service. Some will not even have a cross in or on the building, for fear of promoting idolatry.

Again though, there are lots of different Presbyterian denominations out there, and they have differing views on your question.

Speaking in tongues if you can do it is mostly for the spiritual edification of one's own private prayer life. It is generally not used in the church. A lot of churches have a tendency to misuse the speaking in tongues, prophecy, and interpretation of tongues.
Jan

janny108 said:

A lot of churches have a tendency to misuse the speaking in tongues, prophecy, and interpretation of tongues.
Jan

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I am not challenging your statement because it is most probably true.

The Brethren church misuse those gifts by throwing good Christian believers out of their congregations who dare to practice them.

Other churches say that they will not use them because they will not venture into the unknown.

The churches that are actually trying to practice them are at least trying to obey the Lord in the way He wants them to preach the gospel. Because of that, I would say:

"It is better to cool down a fanatic than to warm up a corpse!"

i don't understand why some groups make speaking in tongues the sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? what about all the other gifts.

Speaking in tongues doesn't really make sense to me, could someone explain it.

I've seen what I think it is, done in too showy a manner. And I've seen where some people were intimidated into doing it. Everyone in the room had to do it or the leader said "I don't feel enough praise in here."

I just think it is really bizarre, don't see its purpose and am skeptical about it. But I don't really understand it.

janny108 said:

Speaking in tongues if you can do it is mostly for the spiritual edification of one's own private prayer life.

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that is just one reason why I don't accept tongues today .................... name another gift that is given for selfish reasons ?

Spiritual gifts are to be used in humility and only glorify God (not themselves). My problem when people are using gifts that are clearly for selfish motives (that I believe) and tongues today are not active as they were in the New Testament days. Speaking in tongues do not happen unless there are at least two people are able to interpret and make sure it is biblical. Since I am aware that most tongues spoken are not biblical and majority of the time, people can't interpret them. Since we have our Bible, tongues is not needed.

pjw said:

i don't understand why some groups make speaking in tongues the sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? what about all the other gifts.

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Well, they're heretics. And heretics do all kinds of crazy things.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

Saying crazy things like ... All spiritual gifts have ceased. mwahaha.. heresy! heresy!

I know I'm gonna get flamed for that ... but before that, here is the reasoning,from a complete cessationist viewpoint. I'm still actually looking into this...

Every spiritual gift has ceased at the end of the 1st century with the completion of the New Testament canon as the preeminent sign of the church's maturation. Each spiritual gift passage in the NT must be intrepted rigorously in its own unique context, without unduly allowing the other texts, particularly 1 Cor 12-14, to have the role of interpretive grid, whereby all the other text are exegeted in light of 1 Cor 12-14. That is to undermine and denigrate the full inspiritation, sufficiency, and unique contribution of each individual passage.

The evidence from Biblical History:

There is generally regarded to be three great periods of God's miraculous work through His chosen human instruments in biblical history. Those three periods are the time of Moses, Elijah and Elisha and Jesus Christ and His apostles. Each period is punctuated by an outpouring divine revelation being inscripturated as part of the written Word of God. Hence, we can safely assert that these miracle-eras were brought about by God in order to validate His mesengers and most of all, the Word that they carried to His people Israel and to the rest of the world )particularly in Jesus' time).
Miracles do take place throughout the bible, but not in huge clusters as in these three specific periods. In fact, miracles are not too frequent as one peruses the pages of Scripture. These of course, has to do with the purpose of miracles mentioned above.
Again, history is just that, history. It is not meant to be slavishly copied. Principles can be drawn fro the sake of application. But seeking to recreate one-time experiences in your own Christian life will prove to be futile.

The Evidence from the Purpose of Tongues

What was the purpose of tongues? 1 Cor 14:22 says, "Tongues are for a sign not to those who bleieve but to unbelievers." The word for "sign" speaks of a miraculous happening with a deeper spiritual or symbolic significance. This gift was given by God to authenticate an inspired message.
Tongues served to scatter the gospel to new language groups. In Acts 2,10 and 19, tongues gave evidence that God was including all peoples in His newly created body, the body of Christ, the church. Once the church began to grow in size and i geographical distribution, the need for tongues went away and with it the gift itself.

Question:

Where were the spectacular signs for over 1,800 years of church history?

I wonder how long it will take the candy bar denominations to spot this thread and report it

I'm still full of questions about this topic:

What does it sound like? Are there any recordings of it? Is there any organized phonetical system for it? Are there written interpretations translated into English? What kind of things are said? What is candy bar denomination?

answer any of these if you have any ideas about them.

moretap said:

I'm still full of questions about this topic:

What does it sound like? Are there any recordings of it? Is there any organized phonetical system for it? Are there written interpretations translated into English? What kind of things are said? What is candy bar denomination?

answer any of these if you have any ideas about them.

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It sounds like, JKLJ@Enoi23e89#*(no234n JKSD2j03r8)R*(#nwoef aowid Q#$8 2qr OIDN09823 rNOI:Qo;fiq4f;8498904q*()#$58u90nj q4890 fE*90 23no fa8wj )D*N3nfji420f8pP#J*nl#F oifj308 NL#FoiF #: or something close to that...

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

yeah, basically I think it sounds like a less musical more choppy scatman. Like shibbiddy hibbity bim bam bopaloo dopaloo hey hey!

moretap said:

Like shibbiddy hibbity bim bam bopaloo dopaloo hey hey!

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You nailed it!!

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

moretap said:

yeah, basically I think it sounds like a less musical more choppy scatman. Like shibbiddy hibbity bim bam bopaloo dopaloo hey hey!

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Nah thats not it.Its more like
Shalalalom lama tala malamba sholaam beaaaa shmalalom balalala sholomana malalala.
I know a Church of Scotland minister who can speak in tongues at will.His background was pentecostal and he had to fake it for years lol

oworm said:

Nah thats not it.Its more like
Shalalalom lama tala malamba sholaam beaaaa shmalalom balalala sholomana malalala.
I know a Church of Scotland minister who can speak in tongues at will.His background was pentecostal and he had to fake it for years lol

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as far as i know all tongues speakers can do it by will ........... i can still do it!

but i don't think it is genuine so I don't do it ........... I wish it was genuine , no-one likes admitting being "taken for a ride."

i could talk in tongues if i wanted to, and i don't even have a background in it . it's pretty easy. a lot of people betray themselves by always making the 'a' sound, e.g.

Shalalalom lama tala malamba sholaam beaaaa shmalalom balalala sholomana malalala.

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but i don't think we should be making fun of something God instituted for the benefit of His Church while it got started.

Well. . .not to poke fun, but let me tell you about a time I had several years ago.
My father had to go to Richmond, VA for a business trip and he took the whole family. While down there, he met a very nice young man who invited us to his church for a special meeting. We went. We were very Arminian at the time (keep this in mind). At first, it was really cool-it had the best band and the greatest music. The music was incredible and it just kept getting wilder and wilder-we loved it. Then, the visiting "preacher" started saying stuff like, "Who wants a blessing tonight?" and making everybody raise their hands. So we did. He kept asking harder and harder questions-everybody kept raising their hands and the atmosphere got more charged. Then, everybody started speaking in tongues. There must have been at least a thousand people there. All of them were speaking in tongues (except us, of course). It got to the point where it was completely crazy and people all over were in a frenzy. We started to get freaked out. . .Anyway, that is my speaking in tongues experience!

Jon_ said:

Well, they're heretics. And heretics do all kinds of crazy things.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

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Now see - I would have called them legalists (if one uses the Biblical concept of the word - self justification). They would say that you need the Holy Spirit to be saved (no problem with that) but that the sign of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. Hence - if you don't speak in tongues you aren't saved. It's Jesus plus. . . . what man brings to the table.

True saving faith says that Christ alone is enough.