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Where in scripture is tongues ever described as a 'personal prayer language'?
Eh? The tongues in Acts were understood by men, no interpretation there. And the tongues in Corinth would too if there had been natives of the language spoken present.
Not surprising in the least.I did some research into academic studies of modern glossolalia. Professional linguists have examined thousands of samples of modern glossolalia but they have never found any linguistic structure. It is consists of syllables from the speaker native language, put together more or less haphazardly. When translations are readily available (as in some Pentecostal churches) then it would be a trivial matter for them to construct the languages syntax - but even then they have always drawn a blank.
Acts 2 says nothing about anyone speaking in a known language or even multiple known languages. Rather it says that those present "heard" them speaking in their own languages.Yes, tongues (glossa) = language, in this context. It was miraculously speaking a foreign human language unknown and new to the speaker, in both Acts and 1 Corinthians.
1 Corinthians 14:15
"I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding."
Ephesians 6:18 "praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints"
Not surprising in the least.
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." 1 Corinthians 2:14
Acts 2 says nothing about anyone speaking in a known language or even multiple known languages. Rather it says that those present "heard" them speaking in their own languages.
Do you know what happens when you assume things?
That is not personal tongues that is congregational tongues that needed to be translated.
Ephesians 6:18 is nothing to do with tongues. No mention is made of tongues. 'Praying in the Spirit' does not always mean praying in tongues. It means praying in the Spirit's leading, same as we walk in the Spirit and worship in the Spirit. And here the language spoken is clearly our native one as we are to make "all kinds of prayers and requests" and we need to know the words to be able to make specific requests in prayer. And we are to pray in the Spirit on all occasions - every time we pray we are to do so in the Spirits leading, not speak in tongues every time we pray!
The devout Jews understood supernaturally. The mockers did not understand and said they were drunk.
The foreigners understood naturally, not supernaturally. The disciples spoke in other languages as the Spirit enabled THEM (Acts 2:4). No mention is made of the Spirit enabling the unregenerate foreigners. The foreigners understood the languages spoken in their own native tongue (Acts 2:6) - it then lists them all.
The mockers were the local inhabitants who did not recognize the foreign languages spoken - Acts 2:14 "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem...these men are not drunk, as you suppose..."
And where does it say that?That is not personal tongues that is congregational tongues that needed to be translated.
There doesn't have to be explicit instruction to that effect.Ephesians 6:18 is nothing to do with tongues. No mention is made of tongues.
Not so......... we need to know the words to be able to make specific requests in prayer.
Not surprising in the least.
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." 1 Corinthians 2:14
Acts 2 says nothing about anyone speaking in a known language or even multiple known languages.
Rather it says that those present "heard" them speaking in their own languages.
Absolutely. God does not contradict His Own Word - 1 Corinthians 14:2
Actually, "praying in the Spirit" is tongues as seen in 1 Corinthians 14:15. However, you may be given the interpretation to know what you are saying.
It is given to all who believe, whether they know they have the right to speak or not. It is part of the whole armor of God. It is very powerful to pray perfect prayers to God that are totally His will.
Christian or not, a human linguist would come up dry when trying to apply the natural laws of linguistics to the groanings of the Spirit of God.A Christian linguist would come to the same conclusion. Established academic principles and facts don't go straight out the window when you become a believer you know.
Unknown tongues - not known human languages. You assume too much.They "began to speak in other tongues (plural) as the Spirit enabled them".
Again you assume that because they heard the disciples in their own language the disciples were speaking their particular language.Yep, each one "heard their own language being spoken". The disciples were speaking their native language.
Do you really believe that one disciple was speaking, say French, and a group of French passers by just happened by the back porch where those disciples were speaking?If I said I heard a Frenchman speaking in English, it means the Frenchman was speaking English, not he was speaking gobbledegook and it was automatically translated into English my ears.
This is what Paul said:
1 Cor 14:27 "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God."
I did some research into academic studies of modern glossolalia. Professional linguists have examined thousands of samples of modern glossolalia but they have never found any linguistic structure. It is consists of syllables from the speaker native language, put together more or less haphazardly. When translations are readily available (as in some Pentecostal churches) then it would be a trivial matter for them to construct the languages syntax - but even then they have always drawn a blank.
Where does it say the 3000 spoke in tongues?
Where did Paul and Mary speak in tongues in Acts?
It doesn't say the Samaritans spoke in tongues. The may have done, or it may have been another manifestation of the Spirit, eg prophecy. Luke doesn't say.
I didn't say all believers in Acts didn't receive the Holy Spirit. All believers have the holy spirit (it says so - eg Rom 8:9), but not all believers spoke in tongues (it doesn't say that - anywhere).
So because tongues was spoken at those 3 or 4 unique historical events (the Jews first receiving the HS, the Gentiles first receiving the HS, (maybe) the hated Samaritans first receiving the HS, and the disciples of John the Baptist first receiving the HS), you automatically assume that all believers everywhere spoke in tongues? The reason tongues was spoken at those unique historical events was a confirming sign that whole new groups of people were being added to the church.
Examine the context of 1 Cor 14. Paul is addressing the problem in Corinth of people speaking an unrecognized language in the congregation. He says that no one in the congregation understands an unrecognized tongue (not that no one on the face of the earth would understand). If someone was speaking Persian in Corinth then it is not surprising no one understood. But if the same tongue was spoken in Persia, then people would understand.
And where does it say that.
I always thought prayer was personal between a man and his God.
There doesn't have to be explicit instruction to that effect.
Praying in the spirit is outlined elsewhere. Let the scriptures interpret the scriptures.
Not so.
"Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Romans 8:26
The is no mention of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor 14:15.
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
Tongues is not given to all who believe (see my previous post), nor is it anything to do with Eph 6:18 as I just explained.
Where in Acts chapter 2 do we see the 3,000 converted and baptized that day speaking in tongues? We don't. You have to be careful using a historical account and applying it to everyone. That is why we have the epistles which establish Christian doctrine.
The Gospel is preached in Acts 3 and we again don't see tongues as gifts.
Acts 17:1-4 the Gospel preached no tongues mentioned.
Does this no mention of gifts of the Holy Spirit mean none were given? Of course not, but again it is your argument that "In Acts manifestations of the HS (including tongues) are indiscriminately poured out to all present." That is not an accurate statement.
Again, this is why it is important to look at the epistles and understand the teachings of the apostles. And as I pointed out Paul said thus:
1 Cor. 12:7-11,28-31, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills...28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts."
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