Some thoughts on Predestination

Mark Quayle · Mar 19, 2023

John Mullally said:
Originally you complained that I gave too many scripture references and that you are burdened by having too many Bibles.. Now you are proclaiming eisegesis because I don't reference scripture- what is it? Calvinists are kings of Eisegesis with their "TULIP". None of that crap can be traced directly to scripture - it requires many pages of argumentation.

You do seem to enjoy misrepresentation. My complaint wasn't about too many scripture references. Maybe you're thinking of someone else? And no, I did not say, nor imply that I am burdened by having too many Bibles. This isn't just dishonest, it is slander.

John Mullally said:
We pray that “God’s Will” will be done here on earth, as it is currently being done in Heaven, not because we believe it’s already being meticulously done, but because we want for that to happen. We are petitioning Heaven that it would be done now. We’re praying for God to intervene, and to work His Will, and to bring about His redemptive plans, despite the sinful choices of free moral creatures here on earth.

Not to get into just what constitutes 'intervention' by God, but my point had been that God also accomplishes his decree through our prayers.

Mark Quayle · Mar 19, 2023

Chaleb said:
A hyper calvinist is totally TULIP obsessed. and They feel a compulsion to preach it on Forums and from Pulpits.
They believe this is the Holy Spirit, and in fact its not.

Also,
Calvin read the scriptures with a carnal mind.
This means that if a verse was symbolic, he read it LITERALLY... He read it all like he was reading a dictionary.
And because he had such circular reasoning, he became maddened to create a theology.
Calvin wanted to be in the history books, like a Augustine, or a Jerome or a Paul.

This is the same heretic that was a part of a group that had a born again believer burned alive.
Calvin wanted his head cut off, but they decided to burn Servetus.
So, that is MURDER., and that is the person who invented Calvinism.

JC would read.....>"vessels fitted for destruction" and decided that is God causing some people to not Trust in Christ.
When its their free will UNBELIEF That = "fit them" for damnation / destruction / The 2nd Death

John 3:36

Calvin had to get rid of Free Will to make his crazy theology seem not as crazy.

JC read.... "God hardeneth Him who he will" that is talking about Pharaoh, and applied it as "not the elect", so that he could teach that the Elect were chosen and the rest were chosen to not be chosen by God for Salvation
Its really just insane Theology.

This man was Theologically twisted.

He has the Cross as a situation that isn't available for all "sinners".....YET.... "all have sinned". and Christ Himself said...>"i have come to save sinners".
Calvin said.."no you didn't Jesus, you only came to those that God didnt choose to go to hell".

Reader,
Here is the thing about a spiritual Lie...>"its BEWITCHING"... Its like witchcraft. It is a spell.....its a spiritual deception that is spell binding.

Paul says that people, both unbelievers and believers become SPELLBOUND by the power of a demonic lie.
Calvin is that LIAR.

Paul said to the Galatians. ........."who has BEWITCHED you".

A.) CALVIN is one of them

And you just expect me to take your word for all this. You may surprised to learn the circumstances surrounding Servetus' murder.

This will all be interesting when we see God as he is.

Mark Quayle · Mar 19, 2023

Chaleb said:
Anyone who denies the Grace of God as "only available for some" is of the Devil.
I also dont like the Devil.
Figure it out, Mark.

Where did I say "only available for some"? The only time I speak that way is in speaking to hard heads that are so entrenched in synergism they don't even know what I am talking about if I don't give a little nod to their mindset. God saves whom he chooses to save; salvation is a gift of God, as is the gift of the indwelling Spirit of God --the grace of regeneration. I see no 'making available' in the sense that a person is not regenerated until THEY approve of the change.

And again, do not take me to say, then, that the believer does not receive grace, nor that he does not choose Christ. Indeed he does. But only upon God enabling him to do so.

Mark Quayle · Mar 19, 2023

Douglas Brian McIntire said:
John Calvin is not Jesus nor an Apostles who has seen Jesus. Those who believe in Jesus follow Jesus and His instruction (With or without a family) while adhering to what the Apostles and writers of the New TESTAMENT taught. Anyone who follows Jesus will never live like John Calvin did. Not everyone is and Apostles or prophet and so forth, but everyone strives to be mature like Jesus Christ and would rather die than take a life which could be saved. Let me know if you want to talk about being imperfect with sin(s).

To what you said below concerning predestination and its Biblical explanations, I asked: "How do any of those differ from Calvin?" And you responded with the above which doesn't answer the question. It is only an attack on Calvin.

Douglas Brian McIntire said:
The Only Biblical Predestination explanation due to God's unrestricted and sovereign ability without impartiality able to-this-day to do what He wants to whomever He wants even making something out of nothing (1 Corinthians 1:28) is found in Genesis 3:22-24 and Acts 17:24-31 (Especially Acts 17:27). Any other ideology is simply distortion of God's Word (especially by John Calvin).

I never met Calvin but the more I hear about him the better I like him. Specially when he draws such visceral condemnation from people bent on self-determination.

Mark Quayle · Mar 19, 2023

Chaleb said:
Calvin teaches what you believe.
You've believed it, so..... what i do is show you the other side.
Im here a week.
You've believed Calvin's heresy for years.
So, that is STRONGHOLD, and those are difficult to deal with, because the person that has it, believes it.....and that that is why they have it.

That's what Calvinism does to a BELIEVER in CALVINISM.
It causes the person to not understand the Cross or the Grace of God.

"bewitched".

"Mind blinded".

Paul is not kidding.

Show me where Paul mentions Calvin. No, I mean Calvin --not what you think of Calvin. And no, I did not come to what Calvin taught, but to what the Bible teaches. I don't know Calvin. I don't need to excuse him. If Calvin agrees with me, so be it, and I'm glad to know it is so, judging by the self-deterministic mindset of those who array themselves against him.

Your logic, your argumentation, is noisy, but fallacious. You have yet to show me how Calvin differs from Scripture, but YOU declare him false, and then bring to bear condemnation on false teachers and heretics. You have jumped a few steps and gotten noisy, which is a common tactic of those lacking logical backing for their claims.

Of course Paul is not kidding. But remember, that like myself, and anybody else, what you use to measure others will be used to measure ourselves.

Mark Quayle · Mar 19, 2023

Chaleb said:
I only teach Pauline Theology.
You'll have to wikipedia that.

Once you sort of understand it, then you'll find that Calvin is against Paul.
Calvinism is anti-cross. "anti-Grace". "anti-Christ"

Your condescending attitude does nothing for your argument.

Your repeated assertions say nothing for your argument.

Mark Quayle · Mar 19, 2023

John Mullally said:
You should care as you echo his theology. On the one-hand I revere Calvin because he was transparent as opposed to the current crop of his followers who play bait and switch.

My belief may sound like his, but it is mine. I came to it when I saw that God does what he does for his own reasons, and not ours.

John Mullally · Mar 19, 2023

John Mullally said:
God's will is not presently being done on earth and Jesus gave instruction to have it done per Matthew 6:10.

QvQ said:
Luke 22: 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

How does Luke 22:42 relate to Matthew 6:10?

John Mullally · Mar 19, 2023

Mark Quayle said:
My belief may sound like his, but it is mine. I came to it when I saw that God does what he does for his own reasons, and not ours.

You did it your way and you arrived at Deterministic theology. That theology is a common one as it is unfalsifiable - just close your eyes and humm - whatever happens is God's will - so welcome to Islam. Islam’s Allah and Calvinism’s God: An Uncomfortable Comparison

Mark Quayle · Mar 19, 2023

John Mullally said:
You did it your way and you arrived at Deterministic theology. That theology is a common one as it is unfalsifiable - just close your eyes and humm - whatever happens is God's will - so welcome to Islam. Islam’s Allah and Calvinism’s God: An Uncomfortable Comparison

And you have been unable to do anything but accuse it, and to demonstrate the illogic of your own Self-Determinism.

QvQ · Mar 19, 2023

John Mullally said:
How does Luke 22:42 relate to Matthew 6:10?

You said that God's Will was not being done on earth, yet Jesus said that God's Will was being done.
Now which is it?

I think that "Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven" is affirmative.

Thy Kingdom come
Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven

This is an assertive affirmation of now, not a wish or asking for a future.

John Mullally · Mar 19, 2023

QvQ said:
You said that God's Will was not being done on earth, yet Jesus said that God's Will was being done.
Now which is it?

I think that "Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven" is affirmative.

Thy Kingdom come
Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven

This is an assertive affirmation of now, not a wish or asking for a future.

Matthew 6:10: If God's will is being done on earth (per Matthew 6:10), we would have heaven on earth. That did not happen, thus God's will is not presently done on earth.

Luke 22:42: Jesus petitioned the Father to avoid the cross. He submitted to God's will.

How are Matthew 6:10 and Luke 22:42 related other than they speak of God's will?

John Mullally · Mar 20, 2023

Mark Quayle said:
And you have been unable to do anything but accuse it, and to demonstrate the illogic of your own Self-Determinism.

You need to be specific as I am not a mind reader and you are not a good communicator.

The many similarities between Calvinism and Islam are disturbing - perhaps they derive from the same spirit. You should look into it. Islam’s Allah and Calvinism’s God: An Uncomfortable Comparison

QvQ · Mar 20, 2023

John Mullally said:
Matthew 6:10: If God's will is being done on earth (per Matthew 6:10), we would have heaven on earth. That did not happen, thus God's will is not presently done on earth.

Luke 22:42: Jesus petitioned the Father to avoid the cross. He submitted to God's will.

How are Matthew 6:10 and Luke 22:42 related other than they speak of God's will?

God's Will is being done on earth as we have what God willed when Adam fell.

And Jesus submitted to God's Will which was being done on earth.

John Mullally · Mar 20, 2023

QvQ said:
God's Will is being done on earth as we have what God willed when Adam fell.

And Jesus submitted to God's Will which was being done on earth.

Jesus commanded His followers to pray that "God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven". That has not happened as sin and sickness which do not exist in heaven abounds on earth. Comprende?

QvQ · Mar 20, 2023

God's Will is done on earth. Or do you believe that God just abdicated to satan and man?
God is only in heaven, is that what you believe?

QvQ · Mar 20, 2023

Also, talking about satan as a foreign god or any sort of god is gnosticism

"Gnostics, who, in their dualistic worldview, saw the Demiurge as one of the forces of evil, who was responsible for the creation of the despised material world and was wholly alien to the supreme God of goodness"

John Mullally · Mar 20, 2023

QvQ said:
God's Will is done on earth. Or do you believe that God just abdicated to satan and man?
God is only in heaven, is that what you believe?

If God's will was done on earth - it would be heaven here per Matthew 6:10. Calvinism, your dog in the fight, has polluted your brain. God has not abdicated to satan - the church is to fight him using the tools He has given us (Ephesians 4 and Ephesians 6).

I disagree with the Calvinist assumption that "Whatever God wants he gets" as God has left much decision making to his creation. This is proved by Matthew 6:10 as sin and sickness abounds on earth but not in heaven.

Mark Quayle · Mar 20, 2023

John Mullally said:
You need to be specific as I am not a mind reader and you are not a good communicator.

The many similarities between Calvinism and Islam are disturbing - perhaps they derive from the same spirit. You should look into it. Islam’s Allah and Calvinism’s God: An Uncomfortable Comparison

The similarities stem from simple logic. In one respect, Islam has it right, that God is one, and, First Cause. There is no way around that fact. And that fact logically implies many more facts, such as absolute sovereignty. But from there begin the many dissimilarities between Christianity and Islam.

Arminianistic theologies introduce self-determinism, in contradiction to absolute sovereignty. So of course you would group those who reject self-determinism together as one enemy. But you would be wrong.

Chaleb · Mar 20, 2023

Mark Quayle said:
Your condescending attitude does nothing for your argument.

Your repeated assertions say nothing for your argument.

You are mistaken.
Im not making an argument.

Some thoughts on Predestination

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