So you call yourselves 'Calvinists'?

JMC309 · Jun 18, 2007

How happy are you with being called this? Isn't it rather like the divisions denounced by Paul in 1 Corinthians? Was Calvin crucified for you? Don't you think that we should dispense with denomination names like this altogether?

Paleoconservatarian · Jun 18, 2007

Here we go again...

"I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor." --Charles Spurgeon

GrinningDwarf · Jun 18, 2007

JMC309 said:
How happy are you with being called this?

Actually, we prefer to simply call ourselves 'Christians'...however, the term has become so watered down that we need sometihng else to clarify where we stand on the following details:

According to Scripture Alone
By Grace Alone
Through Faith Alone
Because of Christ Alone
For the Glory of God Alone.

Isn't it rather like the divisions denounced by Paul in 1 Corinthians? Was Calvin crucified for you? Don't you think that we should dispense with denomination names like this altogether?

How much do you know really know about Calvinism? Are you aware that none of us thinks that Calvin died for us?

heymikey80 · Jun 18, 2007

JMC309 said:
How happy are you with being called this? Isn't it rather like the divisions denounced by Paul in 1 Corinthians? Was Calvin crucified for you? Don't you think that we should dispense with denomination names like this altogether?

I've few qualms about being called a Calvinist, though it depends on whether people have any idea what that really means. Some people think of Calvin as the Ichabod Crane of the Reformation. When you read him, you discover, not so -- he's more open to relationship with other churches than the other churches!

There are more and less right views of God. They're made into words and terminology so you can identify them.

It's not at all like the divisions denounced by Paul. Paul didn't tell people to quit following an Apostle. Paul told people to quit separating over it. Calvin is responsible for thinking things that make a huge amount of sense to me. I don't separate with non-Calvinists over the terminology or the thinking. I do distinguish my thinking from non-Calvinists.

But as Paul said (1 Cor 11:19), divisions exist so that people can see what ideas are affirmed and what ideas are rejected. That's what Paul said -- he said it positively, right in the middle of condemning what the Corinthians had done. It should not divide us from our brothers. It should help us reform toward the Truth.

JMC309 · Jun 18, 2007

How much do you know really know about Calvinism? Are you aware that none of us thinks that Calvin died for us?

:o

I was alluding to 1 Corinthians! But I accept what you say, that you need to distinguish yourselves. (This is not debate but clarification)

Here we go again...

Sorry for raking over old ashes!

My point was that the word seems to identify you with Calvin the man rather than the doctrines he endorsed. Sorry for such ignorant hairsplitting!

GrinningDwarf · Jun 18, 2007

JMC309 said:
:o
I was alluding to 1 Corinthians! But I accept what you say, that you need to distinguish yourselves. (This is not debate but clarification)

Sorry for raking over old ashes!

My point was that the word seems to identify you with Calvin the man rather than the doctrines he endorsed. Sorry for such ignorant hairsplitting!

Not a problem...really! We're glad we could help. If you have any more questions about the doctrines of grace as expressed by the Reformers, feel free to drop by and ask!

GodsElect · Jun 20, 2007

Actually the term "calvinist" was conjured up and stamped on the people who believed in what Calvin taught concerning the Doctrines of Grace or the "Five point" theology and that was done against the will of Calvin himself. Actually the "Five points" was not adopted by Calvin either, but was also made to distinguish between what Arminian's theology and followers of the teaching of Calvin's theology was. I think today John Calvin would frown upon the terms like "Calvinist"or "Five Points". But like everyone else here has clarified, we do not somehow worship or think Calvin was a prophet, like the mormon's belief about Joseph Smith, or that he was anything higher than a man and a fellow sinner like you and me. He was a great teacher and did have a very clear understanding what was truly being taught in scripture, although like all other men, was fallible just like the rest of us. I think maybe study up a little on who he was and what he taught.

I wouldn't read from things ANTI-Calvin because, like you once were, VERY misinformed and they all have simply uneducated and uninformed OPINIONS of who John Calvin was. Find out and feel free to ask questions as much as you wish.

Grace be with you .

Elect · Jun 29, 2007

JMC309 said:
How happy are you with being called this? Isn't it rather like the divisions denounced by Paul in 1 Corinthians? Was Calvin crucified for you? Don't you think that we should dispense with denomination names like this altogether?

What divides us Calvinists is not the word Calvinism, but belief in the pure true Biblical gospel that has been nick named Calvinism. Drop the name or change the name will not change that fact that the five points of Calvinism is still in the Bible and is the true doctrine of the grace of God. When the free-willers stop with their man made doctrine, then maybe we can drop the name Calvinism.

Iosias · Jul 3, 2007

JMC309 said:
How happy are you with being called this? Isn't it rather like the divisions denounced by Paul in 1 Corinthians? Was Calvin crucified for you? Don't you think that we should dispense with denomination names like this altogether?

The point is that within "evangelical" Christian circles there are two ways of viewing the Scriptures. Both claim Scripture supports their view. The terms "Arminian" and "Calvinist" are helpful in differentiating these two radically different views. I am not "of Calvin" but I agree with what he taught but then what he taught was what St. Augustine taught and what the Apostles taught.

J. I. Packer notes in his introduction to John Owen's The Death of Death in the Death of Christ that

Before we answer these questions directly, we must try to remove the prejudices which underlie them by making clear what Calvinism really is; and therefore we would ask the reader to take note of the following facts, historical and theological, about Calvinism in general and the “five points” in particular.

This continues here.

BTW: I would label myself as Reformed

http://www.monergism.com/directory/
http://www.apuritansmind.com

clayforHim648 · Jul 3, 2007

Using the term "calvinism" is sometimes useful in order to quickly let another person that is familiar with theology know where you stand...in other words, get all the presuppositions out there on the table. I agree with Spurgeon, calvinism is simply the biblical Gospel.

However, simply the word "calvinism" can put up barriers and walls in conversation that is more detrimental than helpful depending on who you're talking to. And though many of us are used to talking to well educated believers familiar with church history and a wide variety of theologies, you cannot use the same kind of language with a convert from the countryside in China or India or New Guinea. i suppose you could tell that person about calvinism and explain the historicity and all that (if you're lucky to get past the language barrier), but you're better off just talking about the Bible and what it teaches. And I would argue that you don't have to go to a Third World country to find people who just aren't familiar with and do not use the same "church" language we use. You could start with the next-door neighbor.

Atlantians · Jul 4, 2007

Personally I think both Arminianism and Calvinism are true to a degree.

Arminianism is like the milk, while Calvinism is the meat.

They are intension, both pointing in different directions, but connected, like a two sided spear.

Nomatter how long they point away from the other, they are still connected and a part of the same spear.

I believe everyone must pass through the school of Arminianism, but, pass through it, we must.

Rick Otto · Jul 23, 2007

connected like we all are to Adam, must pass thru, like being born, I guess.
And true, we wouldn't have needed Reform if we weren't connected to the 'wrong end' of good doctrine, so to speak.
I wouldn't dignify Arminianism with "Milk", tho.
I don't think it has any more legitimacy than it does give God glory.

ReformedChapin · Jul 23, 2007

Atlantians said:
Personally I think both Arminianism and Calvinism are true to a degree.

Arminianism is like the milk, while Calvinism is the meat.

They are intension, both pointing in different directions, but connected, like a two sided spear.

Nomatter how long they point away from the other, they are still connected and a part of the same spear.

I believe everyone must pass through the school of Arminianism, but, pass through it, we must.

I disagree I think that arminianism is a completely different set of doctrine regarding salvation. While calvinism heavely enphesizes God's soveringhty and God's grace arminianism leaves open a door for works or a work...faith. Not only that but I don't understand how exactly one comes to faith in the armianism system, if God is truthfully obvious than why is that not everyone believes? Being a former athiest I can safely tell you that God wasn't always so obvious to me until he completely changed my orientation.

So you call yourselves 'Calvinists'?

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