So Darwin was wrong after all

Jerry Smith · Aug 2, 2002

by the way, Stormy - I hope you will read this page:
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/mutations.html
before you come to any certain conclusions about what mutations aren't capable of.

You said that you were going to study evolution for a while and try to come to understand it. Have you gotten a start yet? The whole TalkOrigins archive is full of good information if you want to start your study on the internet.

Stormy · Aug 2, 2002

Jerry: I have read most of talkorigins... minus of course the things that are added each day.

I will look at what you suggest by your post.

I believe you may not understand that the word random is to be assumed when I denounce mutations.

I am fully aware that God in all likelihood could have used evolution and change in genetics to acquire the vast array of life upon our planet.

But these changes that were made, and may still be made today, are not the random mutation caused by natureâ¦ that you view as your god of creation.

Stormy · Aug 2, 2002

You are not usually so insulting. I don't know if I want to keep up our friendly conversation when you say things like this. Maybe you should think about what you are accusing me of.

I am sorry. But there comes a point when the Truth must be spoken.

For is it truly love when I continue to cuddle you in your darkness

Or is it better that I turn on the light of Truth.

For I believe that God may see you as worshiping a false god.

I see you as one worth saving.

Stormy · Aug 2, 2002

Jerry: Please do not be angry with me.

Jerry Smith · Aug 2, 2002

Jerry: Please do not be angry with me.

I will not be. But this:

But these changes that were made, and may still be made today, are not the random mutation caused by natureâ¦ that you view as your god of creation.

makes it difficult for me. I do not worship nature. I acknowledge and attempt to understand natural processes. I hope you will see the difference between the two.

Stormy · Aug 2, 2002

I do not worship God either... in the sense that you may think... through religion.

I speak to God in prayer and I believe that the Spirit inside my soul offers me guidance.

I read the Bible and ask that I be led to a better understanding.

I recognize God as not only the creator of all but as my personal Father.

I do not belong to any religion of man, even Christianity as proposed by organized religion... sometimes fails me.

--------------------------------------------------------

It was your word of worship that was inserted into my thoughts.

Instead I said that you view nature as your creator. (god)

When you only acknowledge the creation and deny the Creator you must also see the danger of the image of a false god. Man and his search for knowledge can never be thought of as a replacement for God.

I cannot help my thoughts but I can guard my words.

It is with pleasure I find, in your words, that the place reserved for God within your heart is not filled and is still open to the Spirit.

May God bless you!

Jerry Smith · Aug 2, 2002

Stormy, you believe that God created (which is fine - I don't object to your belief, and I don't think you should change it).. But, believing that God is a creator, doesn't mean that anything that creates is a god.

I believe I am a product of nature, but that doesn't make nature a god in any respect.

If I were a Christian, I would believe that I was both a product of nature and a creation of God (believing that God created nature, and that nature, in turn and according to His plan) produced me.

I would believe the same even if I did not know about the science of evolution. My parents did the thing that all natural beings do, and I was the natural result. My belief in that wouldn't affect my belief that God planned for that to happen. The same would be true if I did know about evolution. Humans evolved the same way the rest of the world evolved. Through natural processes. If I were a Christian, I wouldn't deny that any more than I deny the natural process of birth that brought me into this world.

Morat · Aug 2, 2002

If you believe evolution, say-so should be more than enough for you. Why raise your standards, now?

  So you can't back it up. Figures.

 

Stormy · Aug 2, 2002

If I were a Christian, I would believe that I was both a product of nature and a creation of God (believing that God created nature, and that nature, in turn and according to His plan) produced me.

I like this and agree!

I almost agree. (Sorry I had to edit)

I believe that God is the God of the living. I do not believe, that he at any point, merely sits and watches.

I believe I am a product of nature, but that doesn't make nature a god in any respect.

No comment.

Please

I am sorry that my view brings you displeasure.

I could probably find a quote from the Bible that would help you understand my thoughts.

But you do not place any merit upon the word of God.

That's leaves me the only option to ask that we agree to disagree.

I promise to not use this concept again since you, and the others, see it as an insult.

Jerry Smith · Aug 2, 2002

Fair enough.

Stormy · Aug 2, 2002

common design does not explain the majority of homologous regions in human and chimpanzee DNA

Chickenman: Why in the world not?

npetreley · Aug 2, 2002

Originally posted by Jerry Smith

I believe I am a product of nature, but that doesn't make nature a god in any respect.

Yes, it does. But not in a way I think you can understand.

Stormy · Aug 2, 2002

Chickenman: You need not respond. I found your thread "Please explain"

I will answer on it as not to confuse threads.

choccy · Aug 3, 2002

Originally posted by Christian Soldier
"So, did I have a point here? Well, yeah I did actually. We often here from creationists that scientists (or at least the evil ones who believe in evolution) are so dogmatic that they cannot allow themself to doubt a single thing Darwin ever said. Here's proof that they do. And when the data shows that Darwin was wrong, scientists conclude that Darwin was wrong. Does anyone really think they wouldn't do the same with the teory of evolution if the data showed it to be wrong?"---choccy

Please name all of the prominent Creationists who claim that:

1. Scientists who believe in evolution are evil.

2. Evolutionist scientists are "so dogmatic that they cannot allow themself to doubt a single thing Darwin ever said."

Your strawman argument is meaningless.

I didn't mention anything about prominent creation "scientists" in my post. The points I made are simply based on my own personal experience from debating creationists on the net. They might not be represtative for creationists at large and anyone who wants to can feel free to disregard my claims. I'm not gonna spend hours wading through old threads on various discussion forums to back them up.

Choccy

Jerry Smith · Aug 3, 2002

Originally posted by npetreley

Yes, it does. But not in a way I think you can understand.

No, probably not. After all, I am pretty stupid. I'm sure if I spent years studying under your tutelage it would become clear to me why a false syllogism (God is a creator, nature does something like creating, therefore nature must be a god) is actually good logic, and not an extremely simplistic fallacy.

So, you gonna learn me some stuff Uncle Nick?

So Darwin was wrong after all

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