Smollett Charged With Crime

Hank77 · Feb 23, 2019

jason_delisle said:
So you then agree that racist people voting for a president doesn't make that president racist.

I never said it did. But it does say to me that white nationalists and the KKK think Trump understands their issues in the US.

What causes people to be suspicious of Trump is what he said about the people marching in Charlottesville and he doesn't boldly speak out against white nationalists, the KKK, and those like them..
I don't necessarily think he is racist but that he won't speak out against them because he doesn't want to lose their support, especially not if he runs for reelection. We all know how much it bothered him that he didn't win the popular vote.

Ana the Ist · Feb 23, 2019

rambot said:
Wait what? You think that the general public ALWAYS "has access to the same claims, same facts"? I think that may be more than a bit misguided.

I suppose that someone could be living in a cave somewhere that the news and internet don't reach...but that's beside the point.

No they don't. They just kvetch online, some of them would randomly make threats and a many would make "lock 'em up" type comments.

Oh no....nope.

The left simply doesn't wait for facts. Take a look at all the police shootings that caused the left to freak out. They march, call for firings, demand prosecution...etc. All it takes is a fuzzy 30 second video and allegations of racism or wrongdoing...sometimes just the allegation.

The MeToo movement did the same thing. It's got it's injustices too. We could talk about Al Franken, or Aziz Ansari...but I think Chris Hardwick and Kavanaugh are the most public examples.

If you missed the Hardwick thing, he's a tv personality who nearly lost his career. An ex girlfriend publicly alleged that he was a drunken physically/sexually abusive bf. His producers canceled his shows....they figured they'd get in front of it. He had to have other ex gfs release statements that basically testified to his good behavior. He had to try and save his career...and I think if those women weren't brave enough to come forward on his behalf, he'd be finished.

No. You don't need to drop all your support. I have no problem with asking or needing evidence. If police evidence turns up direct evidence of wrong doing (as in Jussie's case) THEN you have a GREAT reason to abandon your position.

Here's another GREAT reason why you should abandon the "believe the victim" position....

It creates an environment where frauds like Smollett thrive. He may be the most public example of someone trying to take advantage of this "believe the victim" narrative....but he's certainly not the first, he won't be the last, and it's a certainty that others have gotten away with it.

But just because something happenned 30 years ago does not mean it was untrue.

Of course not.

I fully believe the victim in the SCOTUS case and though I feel the evidence I've seen is a circumstantial, there was a culture that fostered these behaviours.

You don't think Kavanaugh should have been denied the appointment though...do you?

I'll be honest, I don't even recall any circumstantial evidence of his guilt...and I don't see that culture has anything to do with it.

I would suggest that maintaining a thought that someone is guilty when they are not does not perpetuate injustice. I think Kavanaugh is guilty. That means either I'm right or I'm wrong. I am not perpetuating anything by holding that view.

It seems bizzare to me that you can't see that pushing this idea is damaging and just creates an environment where people can just claim to be a victim of some wrongdoing to take advantage of a situation.

It encourages mob justice. Can't prosecute someone because there's no evidence for an accusation? No problem....threaten their jobs, their employers, their safety. It's not justice, it's mob rule.

What exactly is lost by considering each incident on a case by case basis? What's wrong with waiting for evidence before condemning a person or entire institution of wrongdoing?

eleos1954 · Feb 24, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
After weeks of the public both supporting and becoming skeptical of Jussie Smollett...he has been charged with filing a false police report.

Actor charged with false attack report

I'm sure many will speculate on his innocence/guilt...but with the evidence against him, I suspect he's guilty. Supposedly, two men who helped him perpetrate this hoax admitted to doing so, and there is physical evidence of them buying the materials used. I know that he has continued to maintain his innocence through his lawyer...but that's not easy evidence to explain with any defense.

I'm hoping that if he's guilty, even if he accepts a plea...he's willing to admit what he has done. I'm not going to guess what his motives were, but before anyone mentions the "hate letter" he received...it's worth noting that he may have perpetrated that as a hoax as well. It is being investigated.

Some blame the media for helping along his narrative...but I think that's wrong. Telling his claims about the crime he reported is fair...and though some doubted this from the beginning...I see no reason to speculate on it's validity from a journalistic standpoint.

What is clear is that he played upon the biases, prejudice, and lack of internal dialogue on the left...which he is a part of. I don't doubt that he knew he would get support from the left, and he took advantage of it...for whatever reason.

Many on the left lament the fact that this will undoubtedly be used to cast doubt on future hate crimes...and that may be. I'm more concerned about the fact that the left seems to not realize why they bought into this so easily...and I tend to think it's because they have spent years trying to silence anybody on their side who might have spoken up in doubt of him. Instead, they've pushed the idea that such accusations of racism and homophobia should automatically be believed regardless of merit or evidence...if the person making them is from a "marginalized" group. The left has effectively silenced any internal dialogue on such issues and abandoned critical thinking.

"hate letter" he received" - this hasn't been fully investigated or determined.

even so ... I expect his defense will be mental disorder related in either or both cases.

ToddNotTodd · Feb 24, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
Will he be charged with a hate crime?

He should be charged with being an idiot that gave conservatives talking points.

Aldebaran · Feb 24, 2019

ToddNotTodd said:
He should be charged with being an idiot that gave conservatives talking points.

The talking points existed as long as the burden of proof has been on an accuser. The fact that Smollett lied in the accusations he made only proves that those talking points should be heeded.

SoldierOfTheKing · Feb 26, 2019

ToddNotTodd said:
He should be charged with being an idiot that gave conservatives talking points.

Those talking points are not about Smollett filing a false report. They're about the media and leading political figures taking his story seriously when it obviously never added up.

essentialsaltes · Mar 10, 2022

He's been sentenced to 150 days in jail and "30 months of felony probation, ordered to pay restitution of more than $120,000 and a $25,000 fine"

Judge QFT: "There's a side of you that has this arrogance, and selfishness and narcissism that's just disgraceful," the judge said. "You're not a victim of a racial hate crime, you're not a victim of a homophobic hate crime. You're just a charlatan pretending to be a victim of a hate crime, and that's shameful."

After the judge announced his sentence, Smollett lowered his face mask and said he was innocent. "Your honor, I respect you and I respect the jury, but I did not do this," the actor told the judge, before turning to the court. "And I am not suicidal. And if anything happens to me when I go in there, I did not do it to myself. And you must all know that."

His continued protestations of innocence may have harmed him in court.

CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson previously told CNN that the judge could give Smollett probation, but Smollett "exposed himself to jail time" when he testified in court.

"When you testify in a case, the judge now gets a sense of what you said," Jackson said. "What Jussie Smollett said was resoundingly rejected by that jury. The jury did not buy what he was selling. That's not lost upon a judge. You came into the courtroom and fabricated."

Ana the Ist · Mar 11, 2022

essentialsaltes said:
He's been sentenced to 150 days in jail and "30 months of felony probation, ordered to pay restitution of more than $120,000 and a $25,000 fine"

Judge QFT: "There's a side of you that has this arrogance, and selfishness and narcissism that's just disgraceful," the judge said. "You're not a victim of a racial hate crime, you're not a victim of a homophobic hate crime. You're just a charlatan pretending to be a victim of a hate crime, and that's shameful."

After the judge announced his sentence, Smollett lowered his face mask and said he was innocent. "Your honor, I respect you and I respect the jury, but I did not do this," the actor told the judge, before turning to the court. "And I am not suicidal. And if anything happens to me when I go in there, I did not do it to myself. And you must all know that."

His continued protestations of innocence may have harmed him in court.

CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson previously told CNN that the judge could give Smollett probation, but Smollett "exposed himself to jail time" when he testified in court.

"When you testify in a case, the judge now gets a sense of what you said," Jackson said. "What Jussie Smollett said was resoundingly rejected by that jury. The jury did not buy what he was selling. That's not lost upon a judge. You came into the courtroom and fabricated."

You know what?

As often as I've used him as an example of race-baiting, victimhood aggrandizement, or flat out media bias....I find this sentence a little harsh.

Yes, one can argue that a mere monetary fine would be less significant to him because he's wealthy. He isn't guilty of being wealthy though....it's not what he is being punished for.

One can also argue that by diverting a considerable amount of police effort from real crime....he could have denied real victims a chance at real justice....in a sort of potential indirect way.

That argument can be made about any fruitless police call....genuine or otherwise.

He did something really dumb, for self gain, and it was really only even an option because of the circumstances of the political environment. He's a selfish fraudster, but he ultimately only hurt himself and his loved ones.

Jail time is a little harsh. I don't see him as a threat to the public, I don't see any reason for punitive incarceration. He's a racist, and opportunist, and clearly a fraudster....

The first is out of ignorance, the second out of greed, these are endemic in the US. We don't lock people up for being greedy racists. His crime is a lie to the police. I would have been satisfied with a hefty fine.

BigDaddy4 · Mar 11, 2022

Ana the Ist said:
The first is out of ignorance, the second out of greed, these are endemic in the US. We don't lock people up for being greedy racists. His crime is a lie to the police. I would have been satisfied with a hefty fine.

From what I understand about the case, he perpetuated his lying in court when he testified and that's a major reason for the jail time. I could be wrong though.

Ana the Ist · Mar 11, 2022

BigDaddy4 said:
From what I understand about the case, he perpetuated his lying in court when he testified and that's a major reason for the jail time. I could be wrong though.

Did they charge him with perjury?

Brihaha · Mar 11, 2022

Ana the Ist said:
You know what?

As often as I've used him as an example of race-baiting, victimhood aggrandizement, or flat out media bias....I find this sentence a little harsh.

Yes, one can argue that a mere monetary fine would be less significant to him because he's wealthy. He isn't guilty of being wealthy though....it's not what he is being punished for.

One can also argue that by diverting a considerable amount of police effort from real crime....he could have denied real victims a chance at real justice....in a sort of potential indirect way.

That argument can be made about any fruitless police call....genuine or otherwise.

He did something really dumb, for self gain, and it was really only even an option because of the circumstances of the political environment. He's a selfish fraudster, but he ultimately only hurt himself and his loved ones.

Jail time is a little harsh. I don't see him as a threat to the public, I don't see any reason for punitive incarceration. He's a racist, and opportunist, and clearly a fraudster....

The first is out of ignorance, the second out of greed, these are endemic in the US. We don't lock people up for being greedy racists. His crime is a lie to the police. I would have been satisfied with a hefty fine.

I tried to wait for the trial and evidence before condemning Smollett. It all seemed so far fetched to believe a man would perpetrate such a scheme when those things occur in reality already. But as Jussie has been found guilty, I think a few months in jail will give him pause to reflect on his actions. This exacerbated the already strained, divisive atmosphere in American society. I still have trouble accepting he would plan such a farce to begin with. Maybe some therapy is in order for Jussie. Along with his punishment. It seems like all Americans today double down on their mistakes rather than admitting the error. Jussie was still claiming his innocence after the judge berated him. Could he really be innocent? Doesn't seem likely.

Ana the Ist · Mar 11, 2022

Brihaha said:
I tried to wait for the trial and evidence before condemning Smollett.

Typically, this is an understandable position.

It all seemed so far fetched to believe a man would perpetrate such a scheme when those things occur in reality already.

Right? There's probably roving bands of racists looking for D list actors and trying to turn them into political heroes in service of an agenda.

But as Jussie has been found guilty, I think a few months in jail will give him pause to reflect on his actions.

That and the fact no one will want to work with him.

This exacerbated the already strained, divisive atmosphere in American society.

I guess?

I still have trouble accepting he would plan such a farce to begin with.

Why though?

Maybe some therapy is in order for Jussie. Along with his punishment. It seems like all Americans today double down on their mistakes rather than admitting the error. Jussie was still claiming his innocence after the judge berated him. Could he really be innocent? Doesn't seem likely.

There's clues...buried in plain sight....in his case.

You ever tie a noose? That's not a knot one ties quickly. How did he possibly mistake two Nigerians for a couple of white guys? Why would he ever keep the noose on unless he was trying to propagate some lynching narrative? Why pay the two Nigerians for "something else" with a check? Why did it look like he wasn't attacked at all?

Why did the crime look like it was staged by someone privileged who had never been around crime?

durangodawood · Mar 11, 2022

What a dummy. There's real hate crimes all the time he could have highlighted if he was trying to make a point.

Brihaha · Mar 11, 2022

Ana the Ist said:
Typically, this is an understandable position.

Right? There's probably roving bands of racists looking for D list actors and trying to turn them into political heroes in service of an agenda.

That and the fact no one will want to work with him.

I guess?

Why though?

There's clues...buried in plain sight....in his case.

You ever tie a noose? That's not a knot one ties quickly. How did he possibly mistake two Nigerians for a couple of white guys? Why would he ever keep the noose on unless he was trying to propagate some lynching narrative? Why pay the two Nigerians for "something else" with a check? Why did it look like he wasn't attacked at all?

Why did the crime look like it was staged by someone privileged who had never been around crime?

I simply don't want to believe Americans can be so self-serving and deceitful. I know they're here, but I liked it better when they stayed hidden. Now these misguided souls seem to have a license for their criminal behavior. Or at least think they have a license to deceive. It is discouraging to see. At least this guy will be punished instead of rewarded for his silly actions. That is a positive to accentuate. America has been rewarding some of the bad behavior so I reckon that's why I've seen more in the past few years.

Ana the Ist · Mar 11, 2022

durangodawood said:
What a dummy. There's real hate crimes all the time he could have highlighted if he was trying to make a point.

I don't think he was interested in making a point.

I think as a young, wealthy, black gay man his mere presence within the larger left wing political scene it difficult to propagate a race based narrative.

Or...he was pushed towards this through his Democratic political connections (the same ones that allegedly got the charges dropped the first time).

But I think that most likely explanation lies in the fact that status amongst some of the political left is measured by one's victimhood. As a victim, he can pivot easily into a highly competitive "activist" scene, gain social media clout, and improve the pay of his acting contracts, etc.

Aka "pulling a Kaepernick"

BigDaddy4 · Mar 11, 2022

Ana the Ist said:
Did they charge him with perjury?

Don't think so. I was just going by the bolded below in the article posted in #107 by essentialsaltes. I haven't looked into it much further than that.

essentialsaltes said:
His continued protestations of innocence may have harmed him in court.

CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson previously told CNN that the judge could give Smollett probation, but Smollett "exposed himself to jail time" when he testified in court.

"When you testify in a case, the judge now gets a sense of what you said," Jackson said. "What Jussie Smollett said was resoundingly rejected by that jury. The jury did not buy what he was selling. That's not lost upon a judge. You came into the courtroom and fabricated."

Ana the Ist · Mar 11, 2022

BigDaddy4 said:
Don't think so. I was just going by the bolded below in the article posted in #107 by essentialsaltes. I haven't looked into it much further than that.

Eh...that may just be a bad descriptor of a legitimate factor. I'll drop it.

essentialsaltes · Dec 2, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
He's been sentenced to 150 days in jail and "30 months of felony probation, ordered to pay restitution of more than $120,000 and a $25,000 fine"

Jussie Smollett’s convictions, jail sentence upheld by Illinois appeals court

He now will have to finish a 150-day stint in jail that was part of his sentence. Smollett spent just six days in jail while his appeal was pending.

“We are preparing to escalate this matter to the Supreme Court,” Smollett spokeswoman Holly Baird said, referring to Illinois’ highest court and also noting that the opinion at the appellate court wasn’t unanimous.

Appellate Justice Freddrenna Lyle would have thrown out the convictions. She said it was “fundamentally unfair” to appoint a special prosecutor and charge Smollett when he had already performed community service as part of a 2019 deal with Cook County prosecutors to close the case.

ThatRobGuy · Dec 2, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
“We are preparing to escalate this matter to the Supreme Court,”

Might I first say...surprised there's still even any "news" happening about this story. I did a doubletake when I saw that this thread had popped back up to page 1 of the N&CE section.

Trying to escalate this to the SCOTUS (which leans heavily conservative right now) seems like a waste of time and resources if a blue-state appeals courts aren't even willing to overturn it.

These are the two justices that ruled against him
David Navarro and Mary Ellen Coghlan (both registered democrats, as in Illinois you can get such positions while officially declaring a political affiliation)

Does Smollett think he's going to have better luck with Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Thomas?

Pommer · Dec 2, 2023

ThatRobGuy said:
Might I first say...surprised there's still even any "news" happening about this story. I did a doubletake when I saw that this thread had popped back up to page 1 of the N&CE section.

Trying to escalate this to the SCOTUS (which leans heavily conservative right now) seems like a waste of time and resources if a blue-state appeals courts aren't even willing to overturn it.

These are the two justices that ruled against him
David Navarro and Mary Ellen Coghlan (both registered democrats, as in Illinois you can get such positions while officially declaring a political affiliation)

Does Smollett think he's going to have better luck with Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Thomas?

Brain f*rt?
“We are preparing to escalate this matter to the Supreme Court,” Smollett spokeswoman Holly Baird said, referring to Illinois’ highest court and also noting that the opinion at the appellate court wasn’t unanimous.

Smollett Charged With Crime

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Jussie Smollett’s convictions, jail sentence upheld by Illinois appeals court​

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