Sir, what must I do to be saved?

Clare73 · Oct 27, 2023

HTacianas said:
Simon Magus is a prime example. I asked once here if Simon Magus was a Christian and didn't get a lot of response to the question. Then also the other Samaritans along with him. Then Apollos of Alexandra of Acts 18. Apollos was actually preaching that Jesus was the Christ but then had to be further instructed. The disciples of Ephesus of Acts 19 believed but then had to be baptized and have hands laid on them to receive the Holy Spirit.

Thanks. I'm thinking

1) Simon Magus - Peter said: "money perish with you," "your heart is not right before God," "you are full of bitterness and captive to sin."
And Simon said, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said will happen to me," . . .is not repentance.

2) Samaritans - the "norm" is not always present in Acts. The Holy Spirit did not come upon the Samaritans when they believed.
Perhaps to establish the authority of the apostles to the Samaritans that salvation was from the Jews (Jn 4:22), they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the apostles laid their hands on them.

3) Belief in the NT is belief in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person of Jesus Christ for the remission one's sin and reconciliation to God.

Apollos and disciples (of John) of Ephesus had not received the Holy Spirit because the full gospel had not been presented to them for salvation.

HTacianas · Oct 27, 2023

Clare73 said:
Thanks. I'm thinking

1) Simon Magus - Peter said: "money perish with you," "your heart is not right before God," "you are full of bitterness and captive to sin."
And Simon said, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said will happen to me," . . .is not repentance.

2) Samaritans - the "norm" is not always present in Acts. The Holy Spirit did not come upon the Samaritans when they believed.
Perhaps to establish the authority of the apostles to the Samaritans that salvation was from the Jews (Jn 4:22), they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the apostles laid their hands on them.

3) Belief in the NT is belief in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person of Jesus Christ for the remission one's sin and reconciliation to God.

Apollos and disciples (of John) of Ephesus had not received the Holy Spirit because the full gospel had not been presented to them for salvation.

Actually the norm is present in Acts. We can see the process of salvation. It is what the writer of Hebrews described as the elementary principles of Christ:

Heb 6:1 ...the principles of the doctrine of Christ, ...repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Those things, repentance, faith, baptism, the laying on of hands (to receive the Holy Spirit). They are all required. That is what answers the question, "what must I do to be saved".

Clare73 · Oct 27, 2023

HTacianas said:
Actually the norm is present in Acts. We can see the process of salvation. It is what the writer of Hebrews described as the elementary principles of Christ:

Heb 6:1 ...the principles of the doctrine of Christ, ...repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Those things, repentance, faith, baptism, the laying on of hands (to receive the Holy Spirit). They are all required. That is what answers the question, "what must I do to be saved".

Not according to Paul in Eph 2:8-9.

HTacianas · Oct 27, 2023

Clare73 said:
Not according to Paul in Eph 2:8-9.

Actually according to Paul in Ephesians 2:8-9 salvation is not offered as a reward for anything someone may have done in the past. In Ephesians 2:1-7 he goes into detail on all the unrighteousness the Ephesians had previously committed but pointed out that God saved them anyway. He said that "it is not of works that any man can boast". One does not hear the gospel and believe based on anything they have done previously. On hearing the gospel they are to repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Spirit, and endure to the end. That has always been the teaching of Christianity.

Jamdoc · Oct 27, 2023

Clare73 said:
Not according to Paul in Eph 2:8-9.

what I see a lot of works salvation people do with those is claim that Paul was referring to 'works of the Law" but if you rename them to "Works in Jesus' name" that suddenly aha, that's salvific. Except.. Matthew 7 has people being turned away by Jesus, doing works in His name as their defense.

and I fear it is because when Jesus says "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
their answer has to be "no".
If you believe Christ's atonement is not sufficient, then you do not believe His statements like John 3:16, and John 5:24, and John 6:40 and John 6:47.
which means you do not believe Jesus.
which means.. He does knot know you.

Xeno.of.athens · Oct 27, 2023

Clare73 said:
Not according to Paul in Eph 2:8-9.

What do you think believing is?

Jamdoc · Oct 28, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
What do you think believing is?

One thing I will say in regard to belief. Is that the operative word is always present tense.

It's current belief not used to believe or one time believed. In the parable of the sower Jesus actually covered that, the seed that falls on the stony ground, they believed, but then lost their faith due to tribulation. While it's true you cannot be forcefully taken from Jesus, you can fall away. Paul also said there would be those who fell away from the faith. Faith has to be maintained, the relationship maintained, faith is lived out. Saying a sinner's prayer at a one time event when you were caught up emotionally in a sermon, is not what Jesus was talking about with believing in Him. That's receiving the word with great joy, but then withering under pressure or being choked up with the cares of this world if they don't maintain it and develop it and live it out.

Clare73 · Oct 28, 2023

HTacianas said:
Actually according to Paul in Ephesians 2:8-9 salvation is not offered as a reward for anything someone may have done in the past. In Ephesians 2:1-7 he goes into detail on all the unrighteousness the Ephesians had previously committed but pointed out that God saved them anyway. He said that "it is not of works that any man can boast". One does not hear the gospel and believe based on anything they have done previously. On hearing the gospel they are to repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Spirit, and endure to the end. That has always been the teaching of Christianity.

Likewise, baptism and repentance are not awards.

Jamdoc said:
what I see a lot of works salvation people do with those is claim that Paul was referring to 'works of the Law" but if you rename them to "Works in Jesus' name" that suddenly aha, that's salvific. Except.. Matthew 7 has people being turned away by Jesus, doing works in His name as their defense.

and I fear it is because when Jesus says "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
their answer has to be "no".
If you believe Christ's atonement is not sufficient, then you do not believe His statements like John 3:16, and John 5:24, and John 6:40 and John 6:47.
which means you do not believe Jesus.
which means.. He does knot know you.

Salvation is by faith alone, not by the works of repentance or baptism (Eph 2:8-9).

Clare73 · Oct 28, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
What do you think believing is?

Faith in and trust on.

Saving belief is faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and reconciliation to God.

hislegacy · Oct 28, 2023

Paul made it very plain and simple to the Romans:

Rom 10:78 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Xeno.of.athens · Oct 28, 2023

Given the answers I see in this thread I presume that believing is more than saying, "yeah yeah, I believe all that stuff about Jesus and salvation".

Clare73 · Oct 28, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
Given the answers I see in this thread I presume that believing is more than saying, "yeah yeah, I believe all that stuff about Jesus and salvation".

There is no true faith that is not accompanied by obedience.
But the obedience of that faith does not save, only the faith itself saves, apart from its obedience (Eph 2:8-9).
Rather, faith's obedience in the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Ro 6:16, 19, 22) the already saved by that very faith only.

Jamdoc · Oct 28, 2023

Works is more or less evidence of a regenerated person.
What James was saying was you say you have faith, prove it, show me your faith without works, and I'll show you my faith, by my works. It's the faith that saves the salvation that transforms, and the transformed person that works.

Sir, what must I do to be saved?

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