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The problem I see with how people define sin is 1) most people have no blinking idea what it even is, and so resort to vague, esoteric Bible verses, and 2) when they do define it, they do so along ethical lines: e.g., sin means "don't do this or that as a principle." But to my thinking, sin is much more than a matter of principles, like ethics is. This understanding of sin is indeed ethical, more particularly related to mores, rather than a religious understanding, at least articulated by Kierkegaard. According to him, there's the ethical, but there's also the religious. Where the religious comes in is pure particularlity, where God basically has a specific set of commands for each individual, which by fulfilling the self becomes itself (as opposed to the self it would like to be on its own accord, or the vacuous self it is when it's not strong enough to become the self it's called to be).

What are examples of these commands? Go and get a cup of coffee. Go and buy stuff from a local store (rather than Wal Mart). Go and vote for someone who gives a damn about the poor. Go hang out with an old widow across the street. Go post stuff on Christian Forums. And a million others. These commands are precise, incredibly concrete, and so close to us that we miss them the more we try to focus on them. These things are little points of possibility which Kierkegaard would say are given down by God at each moment, and as such they're capable of becoming parts of our intentionality. A person is the thing he's doing; therefore, his fulfilled (and fulfilling, present-progressive) intentions constitute his self. So living through with these commands is living through with a real, authentic self, which is precisely the self God has for you. You also have freedom: the freedom to be yourself or the freedom not to be yourself, and this is necessarily the hard freedom that takes muscles and grit. By definition it's always harder to become something than to be just "who you are" (which would actually mean negating yourself, given that the self is founded in becoming); hence there's always a pushing against the grain with the freedom of selfhood. And in a very real sense being a self is a verb, not a noun. Which reminds me of Pascal: "our being is founded in movement; absolute stillness is death."

So I have a conscious but mostly preconscious sense of what I should be doing at any given time. In doing this particular act in this particular moment, I become myself; by not doing it, I'm either in defiance (refusal, rebellion) or weakness (just too tough, man). This is sin. This command is set down by God, arguably by the Logos (or Christ in incorporeal form) or the Word: that is, the word of God for each of us is a particular word at a particular moment, which in fulfilling we have real spiritual being, and in not doing we're very much not existing in a spiritual sense, and we're (meant to be) spiritual beings.

For Kierkegaard, sin and faith are opposites; "whatever is not of faith is sin" (Romans 14:23). If we understand faith not conceptually (that's a post-Enlightenment false definition), but relationally, basically in the same way as we mean it when we say "I was faithful to you," then sin is the refusal to have the trust or commitment to God that makes up this faith. Here is where the idea of the Word comes in handily: by following someone's word or "command", we're living faithfully to them. Hence to relate to God means to fulfill his commandments, which in fulfilling we become ourselves.

This sometimes is "limited" to the ethical; e.g., when we help an old lady cross the street and stuff. But often the ethical doesn't even apply in our particular situation, given that we don't have any rules to apply. This big collection of gaps between ethical requirements (general principles) is where the religious sphere -- the highest for Kierkegaard -- becomes indispensable. Which reminds me of a quote by Tolstoy: "without faith, it is impossible to live." It's only by faith that you fulfill the commands given by God that go fill the huge gaps given by ethical principles.

You want to talk about a relevant theology? Read some Kierkegaard, man.
 
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Found this about sin: Sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History of the term[edit]

The word derives from “Old English syn(n), for original *sunjō,... The stem may be related to that of Latin sons, sont-is guilty. In Old English there are examples of the original general sense, ‘offence, wrong-doing, misdeed'”.[11] The Biblical terms that have been translated from Greek and Hebrew as “sin” or "syn" originate in archery and literally refer to missing the "gold" at the centre of a target, but hitting the target, i.e. error.[12] In archery, not hitting the target at all is referred to as a "miss".
 
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The archery analogy reminds me of the NT distinction between the broad way of destruction and the narrow road of eternal life.

For K, it's narrow because there's always one command we're supposed to do, and too often we're swished aside by the distractions of the broad way to even consider our immediate task. Likewise with archery: we have a lot to hit, and it takes real aim and intention to hit the gold, but it's easier to hit the other stuff.
 
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Seeing as the bible makes it clear that it is impossible for any human to be without sin (besides Jesus), and the whole point of belief for most denominations of Christianity is to be forgiven for the inevitable sins, I wouldn't worry about it.

Well that's part of the problem. Then some people believe they can just fire arrows where ever and at whom ever they want. Others are too afraid to even pick up their bows for fear of erring.

Then no one ever shoots for the gold in the center!!!
 
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So living through with these commands is living through with a real, authentic self, which is precisely the self God has for you.
Thanks, that was helpful in viewing something particular.
how people define sin is 1) most people have no blinking idea what it even is, and so resort to vague, esoteric Bible verses, and 2) when they do define it, they do so along ethical lines
In conversations about legalism and the Law, people frequently insist that Christian life is so much better now that they have set the Law behind them. But what they are describing is what you are saying -- random manmade rules, rather than concrete instructions from God.

What they want to be free from is legalism. But they call it the Law -- and seem to have no idea of what the Mosaic Law entails. So they preach adamantly against the Law, which does not seem to be God's intent in scriptures.

Legalism -- how much time we spend at church, how much authority a pastor exerts over a member, whether we read through the Bible from beginning to end or memorize a scripture per day, makeup and hair length, service and evangelism expectations.

Law of Moses -- do not kill, do not withhold wages from an employee, do not spread communicable diseases.
Some people don't read the law because they are afraid to get legalistic, or deny Jesus' sacrifice for us. But then they build up their own laws of imagination like the Pharisees did.


Genesis 20:9
You have done to me things that ought not to be done.

Exodus 10:16
Then Pharaoh hurriedly called for Moses and Aaron, and he said, "I have sinned against the LORD your God and against you."
But to my thinking, sin is much more than a matter of principles, like ethics is. ... Go and vote for someone who gives a damn about the poor. Go hang out with an old widow across the street.
Simple, direct, sensible, thoughtful obedience to God. Living in community with respect and concern for others.

Nice thread.
 
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Happy Cat
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Given the options of actions you could be taking at any given time I find this remarkable.
 
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Given the options of actions you could be taking at any given time I find this remarkable.

Yeah, those are examples of possibility. K has these covered too: not only do you have the despair of necessity, which we're all familiar with and is the despair of having no options and being doomed to a path against your seeming will, but there's also the despair of possibility, where you're so lost in options that you can't make a step forward by actualizing the right one.

For me, regardless of God, I'm constantly aware of a single possibility that pulls me more than others, yet is more difficult to fulfill at the same time. Coincidentally this one that pulls tends to be the right one at any given time. That's the importance of really listening to your body and mind.
 
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Well that's part of the problem. Then some people believe they can just fire arrows where ever and at whom ever they want. Others are too afraid to even pick up their bows for fear of erring.

Then no one ever shoots for the gold in the center!!!

Well, in most denominations of Christianity, you could kill a million people with your bare hands and still get into heaven as long as you accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. And also you could spend your life saving that many people from disease and starvation without charging a dime and go to hell anyways if you weren't a believer.
 
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The psychology and theology in the OP is the complete antithesis to this.
 
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So? That your personal views don't match those actually presented in the bible isn't my problem.

But you're responding, so it's enough of your problem that you address it as not your problem.

And the OP, I think, is what the Bible actually teaches. Not the tribal theism you're used to and justifiably have walked away from by joining the atheist camp.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I was never a theist, but anyways, the bible explicitly states that you are saved only through belief. Jesus says that in the bible, it is directly stated.
 
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I was never a theist, but anyways, the bible explicitly states that you are saved only through belief. Jesus says that in the bible, it is directly stated.

Yeah, "belief" is the operative word here. Look at the Greek and things change.
 
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Now see, that just silly!
 
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PsychoSarah

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Now see, that just silly!

Ask some of the Christians, a few will try to dodge it but besides Catholicism, and a handful of other denominations, you can murder all the people you want and still get into heaven if you are a believer. Protestant? You can kill people. Methodist? You can kill people. Universalist? You can kill people.
 
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The million dollar complicated question is whether this is because of the religions themselves, or tribal theism, which hijacks any religion for gain of the group.
 
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The million dollar complicated question is whether this is because of the religions themselves, or tribal theism, which hijacks any religion for gain of the group.

Do you think religions are objective things aside from the groups of people that make them up and their thoughts?
 
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And here, I don't get (or want) to kill anyone, and I don't believe in heaven.
 
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