• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Seventh-day Adventist General Conference Statement

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,307
13,962
73
✟423,203.00
Faith
Non-Denom

In none of your quotes do I see the adjective "moral". The Law is the undivided and complete Law. it is not divided into the "moral Law" or the "civil Law" etc. As you noted, large numbers of individuals have sliced and diced the Law to fit their preconceptions.
 
Reactions: ozso
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married


So then at some point Smith and Butler might view the 1 SM 234 statement as an opportunity to "pause for reflection".

As for unpublished letters and who remembered what and when after 20 years - that is the kind of skimpy nickle-dime I don't mess with because everyone admits that in those he-said-he-remembered-she-said non-published documents - no one has all the details.

I am fine with what was published at the time.

1. I came to the right view of Gal 3 without even looking into the disputes that Butler had with Waggoner over Gal 3.
2. I am fine with accepting the statement Ellen White made as actually quotable and published - as being her POV on this subject. As compared to a rumored statement that nobody has the document for. Those who prefer the unpublished undocumented material as "source" have free will and can choose that as they wish.

====================================
Fourth, we should search the Scriptures for ourselves and not allow others to do our thinking for us. At Minneapolis Ellen White could see that many of our ministers were simply following the lead of Elders Butler and Smith in their understanding of Scripture. They were not doing their own thinking Loyalty to Leadership—a commendable virtue—became a serious weakness when it led to following leadership blindly 88IOL 7.7

. On October 19 Ellen White cautioned the delegates: “Do not believe anything simply because others say it is truth. Take your Bibles, and search them for yourselves.” 88IOL 7.8

Again, on October 24, she entreated: “I want our young men to take a position, not because someone else takes it, but because they understand the truth for themselves.” 88IOL 7.9
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married



In none of your quotes do I see the adjective "moral". The Law is the undivided and complete Law.

1 . until you read 1 Cor 7:19 which contrasts the two where one does not matter and the other does.

2. Until you read Heb 10:4-11 where we see animal sacrifice laws end - yet as we see in Eph 6:2 the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" still applies to all mankind.

3. I don't mind having all Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations on both sides of the Sabbath topic admit to this Bible detail and yet you have the free will to reject all that you wish. That is also fine with me.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Do you have a different example of Ellen White's writings correcting inaccurate interpretations?

Gal 3 is such a great example of a published statement by Ellen White that unambiguously affirms a certain POV on the Law in Galatians such that no reader need be befuddled as to what she was thinking on that topic - I have a hard time not being ok with it as an example.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

Moreover, Ellen White's latest statement regarding the crisis in Galatia was in Acts of the Apostles, and seemed to focus on the ceremonial again.

My own post ends with this -- " In a secondary sense one might think of the ceremonial law that points to Christ - through shadows and types - also leading us to Christ - but I think the moral law fits better in Gal 3"

I don't think there is a problem with her referencing both, or noting it particularly refers to the moral law. However, it is strange that her latest statement didn't put focus on the moral, since it was such a big issue earlier.

Context matters: in Acts of the Apostles that you reference - she was addressing the issue with Acts 15:1 and those that argued that gentiles could not be saved unless they kept the ceremonial law.

as you already pointed out here -


Both issues get addressed in Paul's letter to the Galatians so I don't know how it is even a point of discussion to add "yes but which one of the two issues was mentioned last by Ellen White just before she died"... That sort of thing does not even register on my radar given that she affirms that the two valid aspects of that Law in Gal are indeed applicable.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married



At no time, before or after, did the disciples ever practice Ellen White's pseudo-Judaism.


Is it your position that the NT texts I just quoted and that you just responded to - were written by Ellen White??
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You're mixing up posts.

you may need to click on your own post and note the post of mine you are quoting it - my last post to you was very accurate. Don't skip the details -- and then you will see.

If you need help with that - I will post the full text so you can see everything in it.
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,689
6,107
Visit site
✟1,048,001.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So then at some point Smith and Butler might view the 1 SM 234 statement as an opportunity to "pause for reflection"

I think that was the point as one of the two I quoted was, I believe, directed to Uriah Smith.


Well it was more of Smith and Ellen White both thought that she corrected Waggoner, and we have his book which was taken out of print as a result to verify what he taught.

I am sure that doesn't bother you, but it certainly bothered Uriah Smith.

1. I came to the right view of Gal 3 without even looking into the disputes that Butler had with Waggoner over Gal 3.

Agreed, as did I. And I think, as with a lot of things, over time she came to the correct view.


Which is why I indicated I don't think this is a good example of her writings correcting inaccurate interpretations. Her view was published after the issues were largely hashed out. But it did take both views and essentially combine them.
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,689
6,107
Visit site
✟1,048,001.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

The reason it is significant is because the other two were in the context of the debate, but Acts of the Apostles received a wide circulation, and it would have been a good time to reference the significance. Also, I tend to agree with Wagoner in that the moral law being indicated in Galatians 3 has direct relation to righteousness by faith, which is central to the message of Galatians, and the false teaching they were in danger of heeding.

In the long run, however, the 1888 material was published quite a bit as well, due to the historical role, so I am glad they all saw the light of day.
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,689
6,107
Visit site
✟1,048,001.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
. On October 19 Ellen White cautioned the delegates: “Do not believe anything simply because others say it is truth. Take your Bibles, and search them for yourselves.” 88IOL 7.8

This statement, along with those I referenced in my previous thread on the fundamental, indicating to look to the Scriptures, are why I think the GC statement is quite ill-advised. If the Scriptures are the test of faith then they should not use her writings to correct inaccurate interpretations.

And if they pass the proposed statement for next time, that is even worse, in my view, for the claims of Adventists in their outreach.

http://excom.zcuc.adventist.org/wp-...-in-the-Writings-of-Ellen-G-White-in-EN-1.pdf

Rather than replacing Scripture, they uplift its normative character, safeguard the Church from “every wind of doctrine” (Eph 4:14), and offer an inspired guide to Bible passages without exhausting their meaning or preventing further study.


 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,307
13,962
73
✟423,203.00
Faith
Non-Denom

Once again you have failed to provide a single Bible verse using the adjective "moral" with either law or commandment. The fact that you and a multitude of others have chosen to read that into the text is really not my problem. The fact that you and a multitude of others have willfully chosen to selectively pick and choose which commandments might fit into your personal theologies is, indeed, a significant problem.
 
Upvote 0

ozso

Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
27,854
15,136
PNW
✟971,313.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

This is always the plot hole. They say as Christians we are supposedly supposed to follow the law of the old covenant. But only the laws that Ellen White and others decided are applicable. So what exists in this concoction is a mixture of quasi-Christianity and pseudo-Judaism.
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,307
13,962
73
✟423,203.00
Faith
Non-Denom

Precisely.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The reason it is significant is because the other two were in the context of the debate, but Acts of the Apostles received a wide circulation, and it would have been a good time to reference the significance.

that sort of looks like hair-splitting
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,689
6,107
Visit site
✟1,048,001.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
that sort of looks like hair-splitting

I would not call it such. But the point remains that Galatians is not the issue to illustrate Ellen White correcting inaccurate scripture teachings.

Why not mention GC president Wilson asking Ford to accept correction on the sanctuary by considering Ellen White an authority? Notice how he wants Ford to accept her as a doctrinal authority. And he wants Ford to see her as an inspired commenter on Scripture.

Events since Glacier View

Pastor Wilson commented that Dr. Ford did not appear really to accept this philosophy, that he required evidence before changing an opinion, and has set up his own criteria of what is acceptable evidence criteria that exclude the writings of Ellen G. White as being doctrinally authoritative.


and

The discussion turned to the matter of Ellen G. White and her role in doctrinal and theological matters. Her authority, in relation to Scripture, and the question of whether she could be considered a reliable, inspired commentary of Scripture was examined. In this area Dr. Ford set forth his viewpoint, and indicated that he cannot agree with what the church holds in this matter.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The reason it is significant is because the other two were in the context of the debate, but Acts of the Apostles received a wide circulation, and it would have been a good time to reference the significance.

that sort of looks like hair-splitting

I would not call it such.

Ok - well that sums our difference on that point pretty well.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
But the point remains that Galatians is not the issue to illustrate Ellen White correcting inaccurate scripture teachings.

It demonstrates a well known (among SDAs) dispute about the Law in Galatians 3 - that you also admitted is part of SDA history -- where Ellen White did write about the correct view and specifically stated that the leading members of the church of her day should not get stuck on a wrong view that would exclude the role of the moral law of God or that would not allow the application of ceremonial law pointing mankind to the Messiah.
 
Upvote 0