Self Baptism???

YourChild · Jun 13, 2007

What does the Bible say about baptising yourself???
A friend of mine who was reborn in February of this year, recently baptised himself. I wasnt sure what to tell to him. is this Biblical?

IamAdopted · Jun 13, 2007

Well I don't think so unless someone else was there to witness because being baptized is our confession to Christ.. But don't quote me.. I would seek answers through the scriptures.

PaladinValer · Jun 13, 2007

It says nothing on the subject.

However, I do not believe it is valid to do so.

christianmomof3 · Jun 13, 2007

There are no examples in the Bible of anyone baptising themselves and there are not even any examples of it in the "Tradition" of the churches that accept that as authoratative that I know of.
Baptism into the Body of Christ should be done by another member of the Body of Christ.

mooduck1 · Jun 13, 2007

YourChild said:
What does the Bible say about baptising yourself???
A friend of mine who was reborn in February of this year, recently baptised himself. I wasnt sure what to tell to him. is this Biblical?

Acording to Lutheran theology, it isn't the person who does the physical act that matters, or even thier heart. it is what God does THROUGH that person in the act of Baptism that matters. As a result, yes, technically, any beleiver may perform the sacriment, I suppose, even to one's self!

PaladinValer · Jun 13, 2007

Itsn't that rather a self-work though?

YourChild · Jun 13, 2007

mooduck1 said:
Acording to Lutheran theology, it isn't the person who does the physical act that matters, or even thier heart. it is what God does THROUGH that person in the act of Baptism that matters. As a result, yes, technically, any beleiver may perform the sacriment, I suppose, even to one's self!

so are Luterans self-baptising themselves these days? that would also mean that anyone could "pastor" themselves and not go to church. anyone could do anything by themselves....

Jesus did say, before He ascended into heaven, "go and preach the Good News to all nations, baptising them in the Name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Jesus did not say "go and preach the Good News to all nations, and tell each person to baptise him/herself..."

Rhamiel · Jun 13, 2007

it is valid if it is an extream situation, but it is not proper, he should have had some one who was already a member of the body of Christ baptise him. what denomination is he btw?

hedgehog51 · Jun 13, 2007

Why baptize yourself when the world is full of other Christians who can baptize you?

New_Wineskin · Jun 13, 2007

YourChild said:
What does the Bible say about baptising yourself???
A friend of mine who was reborn in February of this year, recently baptised himself. I wasnt sure what to tell to him. is this Biblical?

Water baptism is merely the Jewish Mikvah . People have had private facilities in their own homes before Christ .

It is more "biblical" than asking if something is "biblical" as the word isn't in the "bible" . If you need to have a specific performance with the act ( words said , actions done , "ordained" people present ) , it becomes nothing more than witchcraft and pagan ritual .

If water baptism was actually a requirement , the Lord would be the one water baptizing - not a human .

mooduck1 · Jun 13, 2007

PaladinValer said:
Itsn't that rather a self-work though?

No, because a sacrement is when GOD works through a physical entity such as in Communion to bestow grace on us. That's specifically why it's okay but certainly not ideal - because WHO Baptizes you is not as important as that you are baptised.

PaladinValer · Jun 13, 2007

So, therefore, unless an individual was under extreme duress, such a "baptism" would be invadid?

mooduck1 · Jun 13, 2007

YourChild said:
so are Luterans self-baptising themselves these days? I'm sorry, did I hint at that somewhere? of course we don't.
that would also mean that anyone could "pastor" themselves and not go to church. anyone could do anything by themselves....
Jesus did say, before He ascended into heaven, "go and preach the Good News to all nations, baptising them in the Name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
Jesus did not say "go and preach the Good News to all nations, and tell each person to baptise him/herself..."

No - you can't be a Christian in isolation that is true...but what if you have no CHOICE? The Bible CLEARLY states that you must believe AND be baptised to be saved. If you 'find Jesus" on a deserted Island just before you die, you're gonna want to make sure you are Baptised. You use the water, but it is THROUGH the water that GOD Baptises you. Baptising 'in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit" does not mean that you simply have to SAY the words 'in the name of the father, son and holy spirit' - it's not magic, it's GOD. It means that God baptises you even though you are using the water.

IamGodslittlegirl · Jun 13, 2007

mooduck1 said:
No - you can't be a Christian in isolation that is true...but what if you have no CHOICE? The Bible CLEARLY states that you must believe AND be baptised to be saved. If you 'find Jesus" on a deserted Island just before you die, you're gonna want to make sure you are Baptised. You use the water, but it is THROUGH the water that GOD Baptises you. Baptising 'in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit" does not mean that you simply have to SAY the words 'in the name of the father, son and holy spirit' - it's not magic, it's GOD. It means that God baptises you even though you are using the water.

so what happens if you believe in Jesus but there is no water available or you cannot be baptized?

PaladinValer · Jun 13, 2007

Moonduck1, how about the Baptism of Desire or the Baptism of Blood?

mooduck1 · Jun 14, 2007

IamGodslittlegirl said:
so what happens if you believe in Jesus but there is no water available or you cannot be baptized?

Before I answer, please understand that it is God's interaction with the physical element which makes it in any way valid at all. That Being said, in answer to your question, the Human Body is 98% water or something like that....You might not have enough to drink...but you could find enough water to perform the sacrement if, for some bizzar reason, you were THAT desperate.

mooduck1 · Jun 14, 2007

PaladinValer said:
Moonduck1, how about the Baptism of Desire or the Baptism of Blood?

Good point!
God seems like a reasonable and loving God, and I certianly am not trying to argue baptism from a legal stand point but rather from the Apostlic View of it. To that end, do I beleive that it is enough that someone wants to be baptised and has faith? Of Course! Never-the-less, a person who happens to find himself all alone and performs the sacrement with no other humans around is not performing an illegitamate baptism because God is both a valid witness and active participant in that Baptism. Does that make sense?

PaladinValer · Jun 14, 2007

I must still disagree.

The Church is more than one person, so I would not accept such a baptism as valid.

If such a situation occurred, the Baptism of Desire is what is in effect, and the individual need not worry

mooduck1 · Jun 14, 2007

PaladinValer said:
I must still disagree.

The Church is more than one person, so I would not accept such a baptism as valid.

If such a situation occurred, the Baptism of Desire is what is in effect, and the individual need not worry

I Didn't realise that Anglicans Hold the similar to Baptist that Baptism is simply a public proclaimation of one's faith. I thought that you're church and mine were in agreement on this issue.

Quoting from Luther's Small Catecism on Baptism:

The Sacrament of Holy Baptism

THE INSTITUTION OF BAPTISM

First: What is Baptism?
Baptism is not just plain water, but it is water used by God's command and connected with God's Word.
Which is that Word of God?
Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of Matthew, "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit!"

THE BLESSINGS OF BAPTISM

Second: What does Baptism do for us?
Baptism works forgiveness of sin, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare. What are these words and promises of God? Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of Mark, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

THE POWER OF BAPTISM

Third: How can water do such great things?
It is certainly not the water that does such things, but God's Word which is in and with the water, and faith which trusts this Word used with the water. For without God's Word the water is just plain water and not baptism. But with this Word it is baptism, that is, a gracious water of life and a washing of rebirth by the Holy Spirit.
Where is this written?
St. Paul says in Titus, chapter 3, "God saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying.

THE MEANING OF BAPTISM FOR OUR DAILY LIFE

Fourth: What does baptizing with water mean?
Baptism means that the old Adam in us should be drowned by daily contrition and repentance, and that all its evil deeds and desires be put to death. It also means that a new person should daily arise to live before God in righteousness and purity forever. Where is this written?
St. Paul says in Romans, chapter 6, "We were buried with Christ through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

This is all rather intellectual only since the end result is the same in that we both agree that since God is not a Tyrant that Noone who believes is going to be excluded from the kingdom just because they couldn't, after thier plane crashed in the desert, produce enough spit to baptise themselves. However, you seem to be arguing it from a stand point that seems closer to the "Baptist" Point of view than from what I thought the Anglican View was of what exactly Baptism is. How does the Anglican view of baptism differ from Luther's view above?

Irenaeus · Jun 14, 2007

*MOD HAT ON*

This thread has been moved to the Sacramental/Ordinance Theology Forum.

Thank you!

*MOD HAT OFF*

Self Baptism???

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