SDA Statement of Belief history

What is the whole point of all these long quotes yourneighbor?

If you're to say something summarize it in a few words. People don't want to have to read long manuscripts when they visit a forum.

Your Neighbor said:

August 1854

‘Leading Doctrines Taught by the Review,’ placed immediately below the identification of James White as editor, who was presumably responsible for the list:

The Bible, and the Bible alone, the rule of faith and duty.
The Law of God, as taught in the Old and New Testaments, unchangeable.
The Personal Advent of Christ and the Resurrection of the Just, before the Millennium.
The Earth restored to its Eden perfection and glory, the final Inheritance of the Saints.
Immortality alone through Christ, to be given to the Saints of the Resurrection.

Click to expand...

The first two cause the most problems.
Considering the radical revisions both Christ and Paul (and probably others) had to offer to counteract the leading religious authorities' views (presumably derived from and standing alone upon SCRIPTURE) of their day, it stands to reason that the Bible and the Bible alone as the rule of faith and duty does NOT work where human minds must read and interpret those statements, or else be instructed how to do so by equally fallible and limited human minds. The very existence of Christ and the life He lived in human flesh here on this planet and the nature and character of Who He bes, by itself revises all understanding of God, faith and duty radically. Support for this revising bes abundant in Scripture, but it seemed by dint of human folly and human prejudice and human SIN, this got overlooked in favor of anything that could be bent or twisted toward exclusionism, vilification of the different and the afflicted, elevation of the self-righteous "elite" above others, and a host of other subtle ungodlinesses that left the people of Christ's day like wandering sheep without a shepherd, oppressed and burdened by a view of God as a harsh, exacting taskmaster with no compassion for messing up where one "knew better". Does the same view of God prevail today? you bet it does. What alone corrects it? A clear view of Christ, both standing alone and in tandem with an experience of encountering His love through other people whats willing to give themselves to manifesting Him, which requires setting self aside, something itself requiring a miracle of God to access.

As for the Law of God, unchangeableness becomes tricky and a sticky wicket because this gets used to argue for a position in the grand scheme of things which it bes never intended to occupy, and those who buy into those arguments end up substituting a relationship with IT in place of a genuine relationship with the real risen and living Christ. Scripture makesy abundant clear that the place of the law bes to bring knowledge of sin and thus as a schoolmaster to lead to Christ ... BUT once there one has NO FURTHER NEED of the schoolmaster (looksy up yourselves!) The law bes never intended as a method of "curing" sin, nor do human efforts to obey it accomplish a remedy for sin, nor does it become the cage in which we bes lured by mere empty promises of love, compassion and forgiveness from God as if He merely uses that for bait to trap and subjugate us all to condemnation and doom all over again once we bite the alluring "carrot" on the end of that "stick".

By proposing that "sanctification" (or rather, the life lived in relationship with God/Christ after coming to faith) consists of progressive behavioral modifications in the flesh and constant sweat and struggle and effort to conform the sinner to the law of God, and that this and the misery it produces and the despair and the subsequent assuaging of one's own torment by recruiting others into this toxic trap constitutes "holiness" and "obedience" bes the biggest pile of rubbish any sinister maker of lies ever sold to gullible human beings. And that bes what makesy rotten the most: that these lies DO tend to appeal to the most earnest, sincere, devoted types -- the ones eager to please God, to become "good", to represent Christ in the world, etc. and sincerely anguished over the condition of their own characters or personalities or whatever so that they have no estimation of themselves but see only their failures and shortcomings and flaws. What a horrible treachery and deceit, to sell this "program", labeling it the "straight testimony" and a host of other deceitful alluring things, to sucker in those most concerned with not having their flawed humanity interfere with the life and witness of Christ flowing through them.

Your Neighbor said:

"We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history."

Click to expand...

Interesting how often the ones who quote this completely overlook the ramifications of that simple statement, "the WAY the Lord has led us."

Going strictly from 1840s onward, reviewing formative SDA history, it would seem the WAY they have been led has been through a series of mistakes later realised as such, noted as such, and resulting humble revision of their understanding of matters collectively and individually.

The irony being, of course, that those who typically quote this statement want to erect immoveable pillars and carve understanding in stone to fix it static and unchanging for all time, instead of obeying it by continually staying open to the process of seeing the mistakes, noting them, and revising one's understanding accordingly.

This is a discussion forum where one may discuss history.

Your Neighbor said:

Is there a useless long post a couple posts above this one?

Click to expand...

yep.. in response to your very long posts.... however, you will do what you think you need to do...

Your Neighbor said:

Is there a useless long post a couple posts above this one?

Click to expand...

It was long but it was not useless. It was a recitation of a poster's views and opinions. It was not a cut and paste job.

If you refer to this post then no, it bes neither long nor useless. A bit longer than some prefer, yes, but not as long as several of the cut/paste jobs on page 1.

And why you feel the need to snipe at Moriah over this, YN, bes anybody's guess. Daimonizomai did not refer to your posts as long and useless. Someone else made those statements. Or do you simply habitually choose to beat up verbally on the nearest convenient creature anytime anyone at all arouses your discontent?

In post 9 you demontrated the skill of including a link to a longer passage.

Your Neighbor said:

Thanks for demonstrating your reading skills.

Click to expand...

Ah, well. I won't go down there with you. Enjoy it.

[pong] [/pong]

Your Neighbor said:

Fatal deception that I will not fall for.


Revelation 22:11"(Pythons' theology) Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and (Biblical theology) let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."
12"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Click to expand...

Monumental misunderstanding, sin is inherited back through the line of flesh all the way to Adam and Eve. You are claiming its inherited and that is a fatal deception. Also disturbing is the way your SOP interprets Revelation 22,11. The RSV renders this passage as,

Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy. RSV Catholic Edition

To say it another way, things will be the way they are from THAT TIME until the end of time when God sorts its out. I can find nothing Scriptural about believing that a Person can keep himself holy. We are made holy through Christ and good works. Our Good works are worthless without Christ and what we believe would be perfect law keeping is abominations and sodomy to God so let's get that cleared up early.

Without Christ = We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. Isaiah 64,6 RSV Catholic Edition

By having Faith we receive Grace which moves us to righteous acts, if we cooperate with this urging we are able to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. It is in this way we have control of our destiny and certainly NOT keeping the law perfectly as Biblically, the mere suggestion of it is blasphemy.



Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalms 51,5 RSV Catholic Edition

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean. There is not one”. Job 14,4 RSV Catholic Edition

That is INBORN sin, every strand of DNA that makes you human also makes you (and me) a sinner. People are still dying YN THEREFORE people are still sinners. Adam and Eve first lived in Sanctifying grace then moved into the dominion of the Devil and subsequently passed this sinful nature onto us.

Christ came into the world to reconnect humanity with God SPIRITUALITY, to return everyone willing to look on Him for Salvation to a state of Spiritual grace and after the General Resurrection to FULL communion with God.

Your Neighbor said:

That is your problem, indeed.


Mark 9:23 " 'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes."

You don't believe, do you?

Click to expand...

Hermeneutically Mark 9,23 can't be used to demonstrate Perfect obedience to the law of God that is executed by MAKING OURSELVES HOLY or keeping it that way after being in a state of Grace. This text is saying that at a certain time things close out and you are what you are so NO, I don't believe Mark 9,23 supports your belief in the least.

What kind of Bible are you using YN?

Your Neighbor said:

2 Cor 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ

I invite you, dear reader, to get hold of the weapons of our (believers') warfare, not the wimpy weapons of unbelief.

Click to expand...

I've brought a sword. I heard the same comment applied to the Trinity discussion and I think we all know how that one turned out.

Pythons, you just made Moriah swoon.

The last time a serpent made a woman swoon the results were not very nice.