SDA Question

Normann · Jul 6, 2005

Cliff2 said:
Normann

I have went through and listed two pages of texts where the Sabbath is mentioned. I do not see the need to include anymore after looking through them. To be honest I do not find your concept there at all.

Cliff, thanks for all the work you did just for me. However I have already done my homework and I continue to study regardless of what my own church teaches (on any topic), I need to find it myself. That's what I would like for you to do for your own self. Go back and re-read the entire section from Gen to Deut. not skipping even one word. I have written several study guides, one is called...
"WILL THE REAL SABBATH PLEASE STAND UP"

If we will focus on the Bible instead of our denominations teachings, we will find the truth within those wonderful pages.

Study Cliff, please my friend, take time to study.

Your friend,
Normann

Cliff2 · Jul 6, 2005

Normann said:
Cliff, thanks for all the work you did just for me. However I have already done my homework and I continue to study regardless of what my own church teaches (on any topic), I need to find it myself. That's what I would like for you to do for your own self. Go back and re-read the entire section from Gen to Deut. not skipping even one word. I have written several study guides, one is called...
"WILL THE REAL SABBATH PLEASE STAND UP"

If we will focus on the Bible instead of our denominations teachings, we will find the truth within those wonderful pages.

Study Cliff, please my friend, take time to study.

Your friend,
Normann

I must be missing a key verse because I cannot find anything to suggest what you say is right.

Can you send me your study on this please, PM or email, either way is OK.

Egghead · Jul 6, 2005

Leviticus 26:2
Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

You shall keep My sabbaths and revere My sanctuary. I am Jehovah.
(Lev 19:30)

And you shall observe all My statutes and all My judgments, and do them. I am Jehovah.
(Lev 19:37)

You shall not round the side of your head, nor mar the edge of your beard.
(Lev 19:27)

Guess some of us better start obxerving the WHOLE law.

Cliff2 · Jul 6, 2005

Egghead said:
Guess some of us better start obxerving the WHOLE law.

I will not stop you.

deu58 · Jul 7, 2005

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:
Nothing to do with one group or another demanding anything. You continually say things about SDA's that are not right.

It is God who said to keep the Sabbath, the 7th day. Tyr and get that fact into your head. There was not a Seventh-day Adventist Church when God created Adam and Eve. It was God who said to keep the 7th day holy.

Does that make it wrong to follow what God has said to do?

Not in my books.

You or anyone else cannot go into the Bible and find as much support for Sunday or any other day of week as we can for the Sabbath.

I quoted two pages on the Sabbath and left behind another 6 or so. Where are all the Sunday keeping texts?

We all know where they are. There is none so can understand why they are not quoted.

OkCliff

Tell us what Sunday really represents and whose day it really is according to SDA doctrine and then tell me what other denomination regards Sunday in the same manner as the SDA's,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Normann · Jul 7, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Cliff
Tell us what Sunday really represents and whose day it really is according to SDA doctrine and then tell me what other denomination regards Sunday in the same manner as the SDA's,
yours in Christ
deu 58

All the days of the week are named after false goddesses except one adn that is Saturday, it's the only one named after a false god (male).

My Dad was stuck on the Saturday Sabbath and tried his best to change me. He would get angry at me for not keeping the Sabbath. When he found he had cancer; everything changed. He wanted no longer hated me and other preacher that preached on Sunday and worked on Saturday. He died in my home loving me and I am thankful for that.

The words Seventh and Sabbath in Hebrew are totally different, one means (count) the other means (rest). God wanted man to rest at least one day out of six.

It's there in the Old Testament, it is abolished in the New.

It's not hard to see it, if we open our minds and hearts with no pre-conceived idea.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Egghead · Jul 7, 2005

Cliff2 said:
I will not stop you.

Do you follow the whole law?

For whoever shall keep the whole Law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Jam 2:10

How about this one?

You shall not round the side of your head, nor mar the edge of your beard.
(Lev 19:27)

Click to expand...

Where did Jesus say to stop following that one?
Its on the same Leviticus list as a sabbath law.

according to James if someone isnt obeying the quote above they are guilty of ALL.

Egghead · Jul 7, 2005

I quoted two pages on the Sabbath and left behind another 6 or so. Where are all the Sunday keeping texts?

Click to expand...

Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike.
Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

Click to expand...

We need nothing more than that.

CorTortilla · Jul 7, 2005

I thinkt hey should make a congregation for Mormons, JWs, and SDAs- they are Christian too, they accept Jesus as their saviour.

Or so they claim...

Normann · Jul 7, 2005

CoreyZallow said:
I thinkt hey should make a congregation for Mormons, JWs, and SDAs- they are Christian too, they accept Jesus as their saviour.

Or so they claim...

JW's teach Christ was Adam and he sinned...
Mormons teach God was Adam and had many wives including Eve...

The book of Mormon teaches that if you do not have a certificate from Joseph Smith you cannot go to heaven!

Neither are Christian; both are cults. To be Christian one must confess Christ as the only begotton Son of God. Rom 10:9-10 and like Peter confess "Thou art the Christ"

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Cliff2 · Jul 7, 2005

Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike.
Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

Click to expand...

That has nothingb to do with making Sunday holy or the 7th day unholy. There is no command there from God that says we are noiw to keep another day.

Athanasian Creed · Jul 7, 2005

Normann said:
JW's teach Christ was Adam and he sinned...
Mormons teach God was Adam and had many wives including Eve...

(snip)

Normann

Ummm Norm,

I've studied JW doctrine extensively and don't recall them saying Christ was Adam. According to JW doctrine, Jesus was the first SPIRIT creation of Jehovah - the archangel Michael. And then, as Jehovah's 'Chief Agent' He created all OTHER things in heaven and earth. They also believe that Christ was sinless...

As for the Mormons believing Christ was Adam, i've done less research on Mormonism than JW but i don't recall them teaching Christ was Adam. Jesus was the result of sexual intercourse between God the Father (who once was flesh, blood and bone according to Mormon teaching) and the virgin Mary.

Ray

Normann · Jul 7, 2005

Athanasian Creed said:
Ummm Norm,

I've studied JW doctrine extensively and don't recall them saying Christ was Adam. According to JW doctrine, Jesus was the first SPIRIT creation of Jehovah - the archangel Michael. And then, as Jehovah's 'Chief Agent' He created all OTHER things in heaven and earth. They also believe that Christ was sinless...

As for the Mormons believing Christ was Adam, i've done less research on Mormonism than JW but i don't recall them teaching Christ was Adam. Jesus was the result of sexual intercourse between God the Father (who once was flesh, blood and bone according to Mormon teaching) and the virgin Mary.
Ray

Well Ray it seems we agree neither one is Christian. I do know both of them change their doctrine now and then. I do have in my library the book of Mormon and the JW teachings and this is where I get my info. So I will assume we have studied different issues of their ever changing doctrines. Seems they cannot make up their minds as to the truth?

I guess we also need to get back to the topic?

Thanks,
Normann

Athanasian Creed · Jul 7, 2005

Cliff2 said:
That has nothingb to do with making Sunday holy or the 7th day unholy. There is no command there from God that says we are noiw to keep another day.

Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it...

The Lord's day was doubtless observed by all Christians, whether converted from Jews or Gentiles. See 1Co 16:2; Ac 20:7; Re 1:10. Cmt. on Joh 20:26. The propriety of observing that day does not appear to have been a matter of controversy. The only inquiry was, whether it was proper to add to that the observance of the Jewish Sabbaths, and days of festivals and fasts.
(Albert Barne's Notes on the New Testament)

Also a question to 7th day observers - why did the Apostolic Jewish Council in Jerusalem not include Jewish Sabbath keeping in their (read: the Holy Spirit's) list of necessary requirements for Gentile Christians -

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

?????

Ray

Egghead · Jul 7, 2005

Good luck.

Ive been ignored time and again over things like this that someone doesnt seem to want to deal with.

Athanasian Creed said:
Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it...

The Lord's day was doubtless observed by all Christians, whether converted from Jews or Gentiles. See 1Co 16:2; Ac 20:7; Re 1:10. Cmt. on Joh 20:26. The propriety of observing that day does not appear to have been a matter of controversy. The only inquiry was, whether it was proper to add to that the observance of the Jewish Sabbaths, and days of festivals and fasts.
(Albert Barne's Notes on the New Testament)

Also a question to 7th day observers - why did the Apostolic Jewish Council in Jerusalem not include Jewish Sabbath keeping in their (read: the Holy Spirit's) list of necessary requirements for Gentile Christians -

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

?????

Ray

Cliff2 · Jul 11, 2005

Egghead said:
Good luck.

Ive been ignored time and again over things like this that someone doesnt seem to want to deal with.

I guess you could be talking about this.

Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it...

The Lord's day was doubtless observed by all Christians, whether converted from Jews or Gentiles. See 1Co 16:2; Ac 20:7; Re 1:10. Cmt. on Joh 20:26. The propriety of observing that day does not appear to have been a matter of controversy. The only inquiry was, whether it was proper to add to that the observance of the Jewish Sabbaths, and days of festivals and fasts.
(Albert Barne's Notes on the New Testament)

Also a question to 7th day observers - why did the Apostolic Jewish Council in Jerusalem not include Jewish Sabbath keeping in their (read: the Holy Spirit's) list of necessary requirements for Gentile Christians -

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

?????

Ray

Click to expand...

In plain English, what are you trying to say?

Those texts quote have nothing to do with making the 1st day of the week holy or making the 7th day of the week unholy.

Athanasian Creed · Jul 11, 2005

Cliff2 said:
I guess you could be talking about this.

In plain English, what are you trying to say?

Those texts quote have nothing to do with making the 1st day of the week holy or making the 7th day of the week unholy.

I think either you are avoiding the issue by playing "dumb" or are having a "bad hair day" (eg. you're dull) That IS PLAIN ENGLISH SILLY, how much more "plain" do you want it - SHEESH !!!

The verse from Romans 14 (vss. 5, 6) are self-explanatory. The commentary on the verse from Barne's highlighted is the argument presented against the early Church keeping the Jewish Sabbath vs. the "1st day of the week"

I'll post my question again -

Also a question to 7th day observers - why did the Apostolic Jewish Council in Jerusalem not include Jewish Sabbath keeping in their (read: the Holy Spirit's) list of necessary requirements for Gentile Christians -

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

You would think if it was so important for Christians to keep the Jewish Sabbath, surely the Holy Spirit would have mentioned it to the Apostles !

?????

Ray

Cliff2 · Jul 11, 2005

Athanasian Creed said:
I think either you are avoiding the issue by playing "dumb" or are having a "bad hair day" (eg. you're dull) That IS PLAIN ENGLISH SILLY, how much more "plain" do you want it - SHEESH !!!

The verse from Romans 14 (vss. 5, 6) are self-explanatory. The commentary on the verse from Barne's highlighted is the argument presented against the early Church keeping the Jewish Sabbath vs. the "1st day of the week"

I'll post my question again -

Also a question to 7th day observers - why did the Apostolic Jewish Council in Jerusalem not include Jewish Sabbath keeping in their (read: the Holy Spirit's) list of necessary requirements for Gentile Christians -

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

You would think if it was so important for Christians to keep the Jewish Sabbath, surely the Holy Spirit would have mentioned it to the Apostles !

?????

Ray

My friend, you are twisting the Scripture.

If it was so important to keep Sunday holy then why didn't they mention it?

It seems you have failed to see that Romans has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath. Same as Col. 2.

deu58 · Jul 11, 2005

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:
My friend, you are twisting the Scripture.

If it was so important to keep Sunday holy then why didn't they mention it?

It seems you have failed to see that Romans has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath. Same as Col. 2.

If it was so important to keep the Sabbath after the cross then why isn't it mentioned either??? Where are the aostolic commands? Where are the instructions telling us it does not have to be kept in the manner proscribed by the Law of Moses???

No cliff, it is you who twist the scriptures, It has been said many times to you that the authority and holiness of the seventh day Sabbath was not transferred, It was removed because it was fulfilled in Christ himself,

That is why after the cross you can not find even one verse that says one day is more holy than and other, Not one, And there are several verse that tell us why that you chose to just completely ignore.

It is also why you can not understand the plain english of the posted scriptures above, Because if you acknowledge them you have to come out of the little mental box that your church has built in your mind to protect its own non Biblical doctrines,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · Jul 12, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Cliff

If it was so important to keep the Sabbath after the cross then why isn't it mentioned either??? Where are the aostolic commands? Where are the instructions telling us it does not have to be kept in the manner proscribed by the Law of Moses???

No cliff, it is you who twist the scriptures, It has been said many times to you that the authority and holiness of the seventh day Sabbath was not transferred, It was removed because it was fulfilled in Christ himself,

That is why after the cross you can not find even one verse that says one day is more holy than and other, Not one, And there are several verse that tell us why that you chose to just completely ignore.

It is also why you can not understand the plain english of the posted scriptures above, Because if you acknowledge them you have to come out of the little mental box that your church has built in your mind to protect its own non Biblical doctrines,

yours in Christ
deu 58

You have posted many times that the 7th day is the Sabbath. So what is your problem?

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