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I guess I misunderstood. I was speaking about cosmology in the wider metaphysical sense and I see you’re speaking in the narrower sense of science/astronomy. I’ll say though, I think discussing the Hebrew myths, or any myths, in terms of what scientific knowledge they had, is as informative as discussing them in terms of what type of shoes they had.
The most striking difference between the cosmologies of the Hebrews and their surrounding societies is that the Hebrews believed one God created the world and everything in it with purpose, whereas the surrounding societies largely believed that the world was formed by accident in the aftermath of a war between their gods (the Babylonians believed that the world was formed from the bodyparts of the goddess Tiamat, for example).
1 ≠ 2. The Earth cannot be both 4.5 billion years old and 6000 years old.
But the system is not unknown Juv. We are told in the bible that God's days, his understanding of time, is not like ours. The bible is full of prophetic days, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Vengeance, the day the labourers spent in the vineyard, that aren't meant to be taken as literal days. Moses himself tell us in a Psalm looking at Genesis and the creation, Psalm 90, that a day to God is not like ours. Peter tells us not to forget this very thing, but Creationists try their best to ignore it.It is possible that they are saying the same thing, which is not able to be represented by a timing system we know. You can not deny the possibility of the existence of such a system. Because when you dig into any of the apparent system, the nature of the system is always unknown. And that is all we need to know.
But the system is not unknown Juv. We are told in the bible that God's days, his understanding of time, is not like ours. The bible is full of prophetic days, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Vengeance, the day the labourers spent in the vineyard, that aren't meant to be taken as literal days. Moses himself tell us in a Psalm looking at Genesis and the creation, Psalm 90, that a day to God is not like ours. Peter tells us not to forget this very thing, but Creationists try their best to ignore it.
That was one of the things that convinced early church fathers who didn't take the Genesis days literally. Are you leaning more toward OEC these days Juv?
Depends on when you consider the first humans to have existed. Remember, it's a very gradual process indeed, must as the gestation from zygote to adult.No. I am still a YEC. However, my young-earth understanding could be different from other YECs. To me, if the earth is young enough to make evolution impossible, that would be good enough. For example, a 100 million years old earth is still young to me. Because that would probably make evolution impossible (I am not sure). So, I said that I am a YEC because I am against evolution, particularly the part of change from ape to human (the current suggestion is that it only took a few million years).
But doesn't that presuppose that God has a different system to us?The second reason is just what was talking about in this thread. Even I work with theories based on an old-earth. But I really think these dates are only significant in a logic system. Time is really a different thing in God's system. That is why we have the illogical concept of "forever".
Originally Posted by juvenissun
But doesn't that presuppose that God has a different system to us?The second reason is just what was talking about in this thread. Even I work with theories based on an old-earth. But I really think these dates are only significant in a logic system. Time is really a different thing in God's system. That is why we have the illogical concept of "forever".
It is not just traditional denominations we are talking about here, by the beginning of the 20 century, leading evangelicals, the founders of the Fundamentalist movement like James Orr all believed geology was reliable and interpreted Genesis in line with an ancient earth either as Day Age or Gap Theory.
What makes you so sure they're "of God"? Is it not more likely that they are some facet of a spectacularly counter-intuitive universe?Not necessary. God's system "includes" the system we know. Our world (universe) is only a subset of God's kingdom.
Think about this: We only know 3 1/2 dimensions. But we think there exists another 7 1/2 dimensions. I do believe the tower of Babel we build today is high enough to sense some mysteries of God.
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