Salvos Stuck in the Past?

InTheFlame · Apr 20, 2005

Jared... sometimes churches die. That I'll admit straight up. I do believe that sometimes, it's best for us to pack up and move on rather than stay in a church that's slowly stagnating.

The BEST advice I can offer is to go to God with this. Pray HARD. Ask him what he wants you to do. He may want you to stay and keep trying to make changes. He may want you to stay and just pray hard. He may want you to stay and start your own service or small group. He may want you to leave there. I don't know. And as you pray, explore the possible options. Often when we do this God will give us a push one way, or close a door another.

Hmmm... hope that helps.

elm0 · Apr 21, 2005

Your situation isn't unusual, many churches have been through that Jared.

Some churches have overcome this by starting a seperate service aimed at younger people, usually Sunday night, some even have them on a Saturday night if they already have a Sunday night service.

Our corp has basically the same service morning and night, same songs and message usually, so the people involved don't have to prepare 2 seperate programs every week. The morning is more 'family friendly', at night the music tends to be more upbeat/louder, more what the youth prefer.

Col · Apr 21, 2005

I know that I am joining this thread a bit late and maybe I am a bit off topic here but, I think that what I like about the Savaltion Army is that it is predictable and very consistent.
I live in Canberra and every year I always attend the Easter Dawn Service beside Lake Burley Griffin, because I know what it will be like.
We sing the same wonderful stirring hymns, have a stiring short sermon and a lovely fellowship sausage sizzle bbq breakfast on completion. It is truly christianity at its finest and most basic with no frills; just the message and the people. You see the same familiar faces every year, it really is a special day for me and I can't imagine Easter without it.
I know that many churches put on elaborate easter services leading up to and during the period, but it doesn't hold a candle to a cold morning by the lake with a pure, refreshing, unadulterated, unashamedly christian message to a receptive flock accompanied by a small brass band and choir.

Thank God for the Salvos

Abiel · Apr 21, 2005

Thank you for the encouragement Col.

TheDag · Apr 21, 2005

chaplainjared said:
It is just so frustrating!!!
A very wise preacher once said, "staying where you are is just as bad as moving backwards"....
I suppose every corp is different, but in mine all the "old" people are COMPLETLY AFRAID of change....and it is going to destroy our corp, and those in similar situations.
We have tried to softly implemement new things into our corp, and all we get is OLD people having a cry and complaining that they dont like it, becasue its not the way things have been done in the past!
Dare i say this is completly selfish...

At an anglican church I used to go to the minister had the same kind of problem. A number of years later we were talking and he shared that he had the wrong approach at first. He said when he took the time to understand them and where ther're coming from he was able to change much more than he had ever hoped for! We need to be careful that we aren't trampling the older members or excluding them just because something needs to change. It is a delicate balancing act.

Warren Peace · Apr 21, 2005

Col said:
...what I like about the Savaltion Army is that it is predictable and very consistent....

Apparently you haven't been to my old corps

Thanks for the compliments and God bless you!

Andy Broadley · Apr 22, 2005

I've said it before & I'll say it again. Change is essential, or we'll die of apathy, but beware of not chucking out the baby with the bathwater.

Andy Broadley · Apr 22, 2005

Talking of change, here's an article I found, which should be music to the ears of those fighting for female leadership withing the church.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/newsletter/2004/feb6.html

Although the Army has always had women in positions of leadship, this article makes a subtle change. It decribes William Botth as the Army's co founder, with his wife Catherine.

Anybody got a problem with that?

chickette · Apr 22, 2005

Chaplain Jared, I can kinda relate again. Our church a couple of years ago made the change to the Sunday night meeting and made it focused on youth more. We lost many older people from our church because of it, they didn't like it, they didn't want change. (They went to a church that later made a similar move...hehe.) Now what our church has is two separate congregations, the older people that come in the morning and the younger group that come at night, and the problem is that neither groups want to make an effort to go to the other service cos they are so different. It's annoying, I guess not as much to me as I'm not a leader. (I'm 16!) But it's annoying to see this kind of separation in the church.

Andy Broadley · Apr 22, 2005

So this wonderful 'change' has succeeded in splitting the corps in two....sounds productive

chickette · Apr 22, 2005

Andy Broadley said:
So this wonderful 'change' has succeeded in splitting the corps in two....sounds productive

There is good that has come out of it. Without this change, there would be NO youth at our church. I'd say there is definitely more good than bad that has come out of it and I would say that people's attitude towards the other generations have been changing. And we sometimes combine the two congregations for one special service, so I guess there isn't a complete separation. It's definitely better than it used to be.

Andy Broadley · Apr 23, 2005

I pray it works out for your corps. I'm not good, or qualified at giving advice, but I feel on safe ground here 'cause I nicked it from John Smith (Godsquad), an Aussie.

Paul said to Timothy, Let no man despise your youth, but you be an example through faith. This is good advice.

On the other hand, it would be foolish to discount the value of experience gained through age. The older people where once your age and went through similer experiences. So don't ever give up on each other, keep plugging away.

And remember that one day YOU will be the older generation and the kids will be calling YOU stuck in the past and inflexible.

What goes around comes around.

Delta One · Apr 23, 2005

Hello chaplainjared,

Lets face it, that salvation army used to be a massive, radical christian movement at the forefront of evangelism, and a movement who was 'with the times' and new how to reach the lost souls.

The Salvation Army was created by William Booth to reach the poor and homeless with both the message of the Gospel and in physical help because, at that time, homeless people were not overly welcomed in other churches. I think that the Salvation Army must get back to what it was founded to do. I read in the Warcry or somewhere else about William Booth's dream that inspired him to create a new church with the specific purpose of reaching the poor and helpless. It was quite amazing and I am indeed convinced that the dream was inspired by God Himself to meet a particular part of society, i.e. the outcasts. Jesus had a special heart for the helpless - it's like what my Captain said: "If you want to get on God's bad side, pick on widows, the homeless, the orphans, because God has a heart for them and will stand up fight for them" [paraphrased because I've forgotten the exact words].

and i once herd a captain say "going to the salvation army for sunday worship has become like going through a time warp every saturday night in our sleep, we wake up sunday morning and all of a sudden we have gone back 50 years in time".....

I don't think like that. Our Capatin always has very good and inspiring sermons and, although we don't sing the songs out of the old song book, we do praise God through the modern day Hillsong songs. The corps officer up at Port Macquarie is so enthuastic about God and his sermons show it! It's almost as if his energy radiates and affects those around him! I'd really like that officer to provide why it is like going back 50 years in time...

I'm sorry that I didn't get around to answering the rest as I've got to go now, but God Bless you and the Army,

Delta One.

Warren Peace · Apr 23, 2005

Andy Broadley said:
I've said it before & I'll say it again. Change is essential, or we'll die of apathy, but beware of not chucking out the baby with the bathwater.

Yes, but change for the sake of change can be very damaging.

Andy Broadley · Apr 23, 2005

Warren Peace said:
Yes, but change for the sake of change can be very damaging.

here here

Willo · Apr 23, 2005

I would have to say from the area where I live, the rep the Salvos have is that of one of trying to get every cent out of you.

I do alot of street preaching / witnessing, and never once have we met a salvo out there, which I believe is sad considering what General Booth used to do. It is my belief from an outsider looking in, that the salvation army needs to turn back to its orignal roots. It needs to get back to where it was out on the streets calling sinners to the foot of a blood stained cross.

The army got a rep, as a charity which is good and is Christianity in practice, but now we need a balance, the army needs to show Christianity being preached.

I would say that if William Booth saw the state of the army today, he would be sad, as it seems to have strayed from the orignal path. The path of seeking and saving the lost, the path of holiness.

This is just what I have seen from someone on the outside. The Salvos have a mighty and great tradtion in God. Lets see it return.

I would love to see the army produce preachers like Chaplain Mackenzie again, who was a fearless warrior for the Kingdom of God with the Australian army.

God Bless the Salvos

Andy Broadley · Apr 23, 2005

Willo said:
I would have to say from the area where I live, the rep the Salvos have is that of one of trying to get every cent out of you.

Say's it all, doesn't it ?

Willo · Apr 23, 2005

Andy Broadley said:
Say's it all, doesn't it ?

Sadly

In the area I live there are heaps of people that need the salvation army charity, but all they got was a shop that is selling items at a more expensive rate than other shops doing the same thing.

The problem I see is that it doesn't just reflect on the army, but on Christians in general.

chaplainjared · May 4, 2005

All i can say is "change for the sake of change"????? WHAT THE????

Obviously this is not the case!! If anyone out there is realistic, we will realise we have to change to keep with the times and to keep church relevant to THOSE WHO DONT KNOW JESUS!!! ANYONE DISPUTE THIS????
So HOW can we make church RELEVANT to those out there in the community, and the younger generations so that they ACTUALLY WANT to come to church??
You tell me? I get so frustrated when people refuse to change because they are simply TOO HAPPY DOING THINGS THE SAME WAY THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DONE.

Keeping things OLD FASSIONED is just the way some people like it, but dare i say these people are too scared to step out of there comfort zone, and are too selfish to change. EVEN IF IT MEANS OTHERS WILL COME TO A KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST......WHO CARES! I want to do things my way, the way they have always been done!!!

And ui would say a divided church with 50 people going to an older service and 50 people going to a modern service is BETTER than 70 people going to one service, because obviously it means 30 more people are experience worship and teaching of the one true GOD.
I get so frustrated here, like you wouldnt believe. surely we are about saving souls, so then what is the BEST way to do this? simple.
and if you dont now the answer, try looking at the more larger churches. what are they doing? Obviously lots of people have issues with hillsong and similar churches, but they have to be doing something right, otherwise God would not bless them like he does, and God would put a stop to it.

Warren Peace · May 4, 2005

chaplainjared said:
All i can say is "change for the sake of change"????? WHAT THE????

If you are refering to my ancient remark, that wasn't intended to apply to your situation... it was a statement about change in general. If changes are made simply because there hasn't been a change in a while, then that is bad... thus the term "change for the sake of change".

I hope that clears up your confusion... assuming of course your comment was directed at me. If it was not, then please ignore my reply.

Then again, everyone else ignores my replies anyway

Blessings...

Salvos Stuck in the Past?

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