Sadly, an Honest Creationist

Originally posted by JesusServant
For centuries scientists thought the world flat, and if you argued with them, I'm sure they would belittle you in an attempt to change your mind somehow, but in fact the world was still round...

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...just like Christians who threatened to kill scientists who claimed the Earth was spherical and rotated around the sun because it contradicted the Bible?

Originally posted by Mechanical Bliss
...just like Christians who threatened to kill scientists who claimed the Earth was spherical and rotated around the sun because it contradicted the Bible?

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That was the papal church (catholic), and yes that is exactly what I was referring to... why do you repeat me?

Originally posted by JesusServant
For centuries scientists thought the world flat, and if you argued with them, I'm sure they would belittle you in an attempt to change your mind somehow, but in fact the world was still round...

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Nope, not quite. The scientific method as an intellectual tool was developed during the Renaissance, there were no scientists before this time. There was a tradition of natural philosophy dating back to ancient Greece, but since these people did not, for the most part, experiment or subject their work to peer review, it is incorrect to call them scientists. Many of them would study some old moldy text written in antiquity and take it as the final authority and brook no discussion. Aristotle says the earth is flat? Then it's so. Galen says the blood didn't circulate? End of story. In the Renaissance people began to look for themselves, began to practice science, instead of believing some ancient authority, and these superstitions began to be corrected.

Creation “scientists” have more need than most of us to parade their degrees and qualifications, but it pays to look closely at the institutions that awarded them and the subjects in which they were taken. Those vaunted Ph.D.s tend to be in subjects such as marine engineering or gas kinetics rather than in relevant disciplines like zoology or geology. And often they are earned not at real universities, but at little-known Bible colleges deep in Bush country.


It says much about Dawkins that he would say this, I found the list posted later n one search line on Google, I have only included the crudentials of a few which is sufficient to give the lie to Dawkins 'straw man' here but all of these scientists credentials are available for examination at the site I will post at the bottom of the list cos it wont let me post Urls as this is my fifteenth post


If I a non-scientist can so easily access this information one has to wonder whether Dawkins does not know it also- either he is ignorant on this information and therefore should not write articles about it or he does know and prefers not to aknowledge it.


Kurt Wise is a contributor to In Six Days: Why 50 Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation, a compendium edited by John F. Ashton (Ph.D., of course). I recommend this book. It is a revelation. I would not have believed such wishful thinking and self-deception possible.

I also recommend it - especially given that those fifty scientists credentials are included in the enclosed list. As for wishful thinking and self-deception, I found many examples of these in Dawkins writings, the challenge is to read 'the blind watchmaker' along with this book and Michael Denton's 'Evolution - a theory in crisis' and make an honest judgement about just who are the 'wishful thinkers'.

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. . . try as I might, and even with the benefit of intact margins throughout the pages of Scripture, I found it impossible to pick up the Bible without it being rent in two. I had to make a decision between evolution and Scripture. Either the Scripture was true and evolution was wrong or evolution was true and I must toss out the Bible. . . . It was there that night that I accepted the Word of God and rejected all that would ever counter it, including evolution. With that, in great sorrow, I tossed into the fire all my dreams and hopes in science.

See what I mean about pathetic?

Actually what is pathetic is such a-priori editorialising - Dawkins is primarily a humanist and such intemperate remarks betrays the fact that his position starts with 'no God, No creation - therefore evolution' and is therefore far more one-eyed that Wises' - who at least looked at both positions in depth before making a choice between the two faiths.

Most revealing of all is Wise’s concluding paragraph:

Although there are scientific reasons for accepting a young earth, I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand.

All Wise is saying really is that given a choice between two a-priori systems that are mutually incompatible, he chose the one. He did so knowing far more about evolutionary theory than Dawkins does about God and the bible. Dawkins has made exactly the same choice in the opposite direction with probably less knowledge of both sides than Wise had .

What Wise is saying is that the personal experience of his family and himself tipped the scales decisively towards belief in a personal God as revealed in the Bible and therefore of the two frameworks in which the facts have to fit he chose the one over the other.

Nothing difficult to understand about that - Dawkins has done the same thing, I imagine if overwhelming proofs that evolution is a false theory (and there is a huge amount of that in various places, Dentons' book - covering the mathematical, genetical and microbiological impossibility of evolution- being one that is ignored because it is irrefutable), Dawkins would still choose to believe in evolution simply because as a committed humanist he has no other choice.

To pick on one scientist's words and twist them from their meaning while ignoring the others is classic Dawkins and his intemperate comments and assertions says a lot more about himself than it does about the targets of his mockery
As for propaganda - well as Dawkins does - or should - know very well his article is based on lies, selective data and distortions, just who is the propogandist?

This a small selection of scientists who believe in creation - the website talks of at least another 450 who declare themselves..however these peoples credentials are listed and verifiable..

--------------------------------------------------------------

? Agard, E. Theo  Medical physics
? Ph.D. in physics from the University of Toronto, Canada
? M.S. in physics from the Middlesex Hospital Medical School at the
University of London
? B.S. (hons) first class in physics from the University of London
? Health Physics Society national board of directors since 1993
? Former director of medical physics at Flower Hospital Oncology
Center, Ohio, U.S.A.
? Allan, James   Genetics
? Ph.D. in genetics from the University of Edinburgh, Scotland
? M.S. in agriculture from the University of Stellenbosch, South Africa
? B.S. in agriculture from the University of Natal
? Former senior lecturer in genetics at the University of Stellenbosch
? International consultant in dairy cattle breeding
o Armstrong, Harold  
? Arndt, Alexander  Ph.D.
? Professor of Analytical Chemistry of Heidelberg University, Germany
? Former vice-president of the USSR Academy of Medical Sciences

 

ack sorry folks - I inadvertently removed the quote signifiers making that post harder to follow than it should be - however is is fairly obvious which remarks are mine. the list continues...
? Austin, Steven Geologist
? Ph.D. from Pennsylvania State University, doctoral dissertation on coal
formation
? M.S. in geology from San Jose State University
? B.S. in geology from the University of Washington
? Consulting geologist for government and industry
? Member: Geological Society of America
? Member: American Association of Petroleum Geologists
? Member: the Society for Sedimentary Geology
? Member: the International Association of Sedimentologists
? Author of numerous papers including publication in the peer-reviewed
journal International Geology Review (1999)
? Chairman of the Geology Department, Institute for Creation Research
Graduate School
?
? Barnes, Thomas Physicist
? D.Sc. from Hardin-Simmons University (1950)
? Professor emeritus of Physics and Director Schellenger Research
Laboratories of Texas Western College of the University of Texas at El
Paso
? Former consultant to Globe Universal Sciences, Inc. in El Paso
? Former research physicist at Duke University (1942-45)
? M.S. degree from Brown University (1936) while studying under the
famous physicist R.B. Lindsay
? Director of many important research projects on terrestrial magnetism
and atmospheric physics
? Published various scientific papers and textbooks
? Member of the Editorial Board of the Creation Research Society
Quarterly
o Batten, Don
o Baumgardner, John
o Bergman, Jerry
? Boudreaux, Edward Theoretical chemistry
? Ph.D. and M.S. in chemistry from Tulane University
? B.S. in chemistry from Loyola University
? Author or co-author of four technical books regarding inorganic
chemistry
? Author of numerous peer-reviewed scientific papers
? Professor emeritus of chemistry at the University of New Orleans,
Louisiana
o Catchpoole, David
? Chadwick, Arthur Biologist and Geologist
? Ph.D. in Molecular Biology from University of Miami (1969)
? Professor of Biology and Geology at Southwestern Adventist College,
Keene, Texas
? Web site: geology.SWAU.edu
? Appeared in the motion picture, The Fossil Record
o Chaffin, Eugene
o Chittick, Donald
o Cimbala, John
o Clausen, Ben
o Cole, Sid
o Cook, Melvin
? Cumming, Ken Biology
? Ph.D. and M.A. in biology from Harvard University (1965, 1959)
? B.S. with honors in chemistry/biology from Tufts University, Medford,
Massachusetts (1956)
? Former faculty member at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State
University, the University of Wisconsin at La Crosse, and Western
Wisconsin Technological Institute at La Crosse
? Dean of the Institute for Creation Research Graduate School
o Cuozzo, Jack
o Darrall, Nancy
? Dewitt, David Neuroscience
? Ph.D. in Neuroscience from Case Western Reserve University, School
of Medicine (1996)
? B.S. in Biochemistry from Michigan State University (1991)
? Member: the Society for Neuroscience
? Member: the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine
? Adjunct faculty at Institute for Creation Research, Santee, California
o DeYoung, Donald
o Downes, Geoff
o Eckel, Robert
? Faulkner, Danny Astronomer
? Ph.D. and M.A. in Astronomy, Indiana University
? M.S. in Physics from Clemson University
? B.S. in Math from Bob Jones University
? Professor at the University of South Carolina, Lancaster (physics and
astronomy)
? Associate Professor of Astronomy at the Institute for Creation
Research Graduate School
? Published more than two dozen papers in various astronomy and
astrophysics journals
? Ford, Dwain Organic chemistry
? Ph.D. in chemistry from Clark University, Worcester, Massachusetts,
U.S.A.
? B.A. in chemistry from Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan,
U.S.A.
? Recipient of five awards for excellence in teaching
? Recipient of three National Science Foundation fellowships
? Various former academic positions at Andrews University including
chairman of the Department of Chemistry and dean of the College of
Arts and Sciences
? Emeritus Professor of Chemistry, Andrews University
? Frair, Wayne Biology
? Ph.D. in biochemical taxonomy from Rutgers, The State University,
New Jersey (1962)
? M.A. in embryology from the University of Massachusetts (1955)
? A.B. in zoology from Houghton College, New York (1950)
? B.S. in zoology from Wheaton College, Illinois (1951)
? Author of numerous research papers on turtles and creation-evolution
materials
? Co-author of A Case for Creation
? Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science
? President of the Creation Research Society (1986-1993)
? Professor emeritus of biology at The King's College, Tuxedo, New York
City (joined faculty in 1955)
? Member: American Scientific Affiliation, Creation Research Society,
and Victoria Institute in England
o Gentry, Robert
? Giem, Paul Science education
? Ed.D. in science education from the University of Houston, Texas,
U.S.A.
? M.S. in zoology from Ohio State University
? B.A. in biology from Washington & Jefferson College in Washington,
Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
? Certification in Allied Health Science from the Baylor College of
Medicine
? Member: National Association of Biology Teachers
? Member: Human Anatomy & Physiology Society
? Member: National Science Teachers Association
? Teacher of anatomy & physiology, general biology, microbiology,
parasitology, and survey of biology at Pensacola Christian College in
Florida
o Gillen, Alan
o Gish, Duane
o Gitt, Werner
o Gower, D.B.
? Grebe, John Chemist
? D.Sc. from Case Institute of Technology (1935) (Case is now part of
Western Reserve University)
? Honorary Doctor of Laws degree from Hillsdale College (1967)
? M.S. from Case Institute of Technology
? Former researcher at Oak Ridge National Laboratory Reactor School
and Engineering Team (1946-1947)
? Former Director of the Dow Chemical Company Physical Chemistry
Research Laboratories in Midland, Michigan
? Served as Chief Scientist to the Army Chemical Corps at Edgewood
Arsenal New Baltimore (1948-1949)
? In 1943 became the youngest recipient ever to receive the Chemical
Industry Medal
? Certificate of Merit from The Franklin Institute (1942)
? A founder of the Creation Research Society
o Grocott, Stephen
? Hawke, George Meteorology
? Ph.D. in air pollution meteorology from Macquarie University
? B.S. with first class honors in physics from the University of Sydney
? Former government environmental scientist and environmental
consultant
? Certified environmental auditor with the Quality Society of Australasia
? Senior environmental consultant for a Sydney-based electricity supply
company

o Hollowell, Kelly
o Holroyd, Edmond
o Hosken, Bob
o Howe, George
? Humphreys, D. Russell Award-winning physicist, involved in
physics research and development in geophysics, optics, nuclear
physics, high energy physics, electricity, magnetism, and theoretical
physics
? Ph.D. in Physics from Louisiana State University
? Researcher at Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, New
Mexico
? Helped design particle accelerators used in fusion energy and Strategic
Defense research
? Faculty member of Astro/Geophysics Department Institute for Creation
Research Graduate School
? Author of numerous technical papers on origins
o Javor, George
o Jones, Arthur
o Kaufmann, David
o Kennedy, Elaine
o Klotz, John
o Koop, C. Everett
o Korochkin, Leonid
o Kramer, John
o Lammerts, Walter
o Lester, Lane
o Livingston, David
o Lopez, Raul
o Marcus, John
o Marsh, Frank
o Mastropaolo, Joseph
? McCombs, Charles Chemist
? Ph.D. in Organic Chemistry, UCLA: Westwood, CA, 1978.
? B.S. in Chemistry, CSULB: Long Beach, CA. Nominated for Phi Beta
Kappa; 1973.
? 1978-1999: Principal Research Chemist, Eastman Chemical Company;
Kingsport, Tennessee.
? 20 chemical patents over 21 years
o McIntosh, Andrew
o McMullen, Tom
o Meyer, Angela
o Meyer, John
o Mitchell, Colin
o Morris, Henry
o Morris, John
o Mumma, Stanley
o Parker, Gary
o Peet, J. H. John
o Rankin, John
o Roth, Ariel
? Rusch, Wilbert Biologist and paleontologist
? L.L.D. (honorary) from Concordia Seminary (1975)
? M.S. in Biology from University of Michigan (1952)
? Specialist in Science degree from Eastern Michigan University (1969)
? Also studied at Purdue University, University of Nebraska (geology),
Illinois Institute of Technology
? Professor emeritus of Biology and Geology and former head of the
Science and Mathematics Division of Concordia College in Ann Arbor
(Michigan) (1980)
Board member of the Nebraska Academy of Science (1960-63)
? Sarfati, Jonathan
? Snelling, Andrew
? Standish, Timothy
? Taylor, Stephen
? Thaxton, Charles
? Thompson, Bert
? Thomson, Ker
? Vardiman, Larry
? Veith, Walter
? Walter, Jeremy
? Wanser, Keith Physics
? Ph.D. in condensed matter physics from the University of California,
Irvine, U.S.A.
? M.A. in physics from the University of California, Irvine
? B.A. in physics from California State University
? Author of over 48 technical papers (30 refereed)
? Holds seven U.S. patents
? Recipient of the School of Natural Sciences and Mathematics
Outstanding Research Award, 1996
? Professor of physics, California State University, Fullerton
o Whitcomb, John
o White, A.J.(Monty)
o Wilder-Smith, Arthur Ernest
o Wile, Jay
o Williams, Emmett
o Wise, Kurt
o Wolfrom, Glen
? Zuill, Henry Biology
? Ph.D. and M.A. in biology from Loma Linda University, California,
U.S.A.
? B.A. in biology from Atlantic Union College
? Curator of the Joshua C. Turner Arboretum, Nebraska, U.S.A.
? Professor of Biology at Union Hills College in Lincoln, Nebraska
Many of these scientists writings can be found in the book 'In Six Days –
why fifty seintists choose to believe in creation, edited by John F Ashton,
P. Hd'

That list and each person's credentials can be found - along with a lot of other good stuff at -
http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/people/home.html