Sabbath day

Tellyontellyon said:

Seventh Day Adventist...
... They are still Christian right? That worship on Saturday thing... I know some disagree with the day... but they are still going to heaven, yes?

Are there any other significant differences?

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Whether the Adventists are going to heaven or not is entirely up to God. But I stay away from them. They are quasi-Judaizers and followers of (yet another) someone who stood up one day and said "the Church is wrong and I'm right but not like all those others who claim the Church is wrong but they're right. Trust me on this."

Tellyontellyon said:

Seventh Day Adventist...
... They are still Christian right? That worship on Saturday thing... I know some disagree with the day... but they are still going to heaven, yes?

Click to expand...

It will probably greatly depend on if they "loved much", etc, and this will probably be an individual by individual judgement probably, or more than likely, etc...

I fear for all of those ones each individually however, whose great lack of love, or lack of great love, or true compassion for sinners, knows no bounds however, etc, be they SDA, or just similar to SDA, or not, etc...

God Bless!

Tellyontellyon said:

Seventh Day Adventist...
... They are still Christian right? That worship on Saturday thing... I know some disagree with the day... but they are still going to heaven, yes?

Are there any other significant differences?

Click to expand...

In the Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday....

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!

A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, and there are Christians in and out of all the various faith groups.

Salvation is totally up to Jesus. Only God knows the heart and who will be saved .... who are we to speculate? We'll know when He returns.

Tellyontellyon said:

Seventh Day Adventist...
... They are still Christian right? That worship on Saturday thing... I know some disagree with the day... but they are still going to heaven, yes?

Are there any other significant differences?

Click to expand...

I feel it important to make a distinction between salvation and orthodoxy. Not being theologically correct doesn't deprive a person of salvation, that's a dangerous idea on its own. One isn't saved because they have the right set of theological propositions and biblical exegesis or perform the right sorts of religious practices; and conversely just because someone does have the right theology, right exegesis, the right practices is not somehow a guarantee of salvation.

Salvation is not some kind of on/off switch that gets flipped on by having the right religion or the right kind of religion. Salvation is the gracious downward activity of God reconciling us and uniting us with Himself, and changing us and working upon us and bringing us into Himself and ultimately into the fullness of life when God makes all things new.

I think this is deeply important.

With that out of the way, yes SDA's are Christians. They have beliefs that are outside the historic norms of Christianity, but they aren't heretics.

-CryptoLutheran

eleos1954 said:

In the Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday....

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!

A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, and there are Christians in and out of all the various faith groups.

Salvation is totally up to Jesus. Only God knows the heart and who will be saved .... who are we to speculate? We'll know when He returns.

Click to expand...

The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine by Fr. Peter Geiermann isn't an official source of Catholic teaching. Official teaching can be found, instead, in the actual Catechism of the Catholic Church, in Part Three, Section Two, Chapter One, Article Three,

The official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church concerning the Third Commandment (Fourth Commandment using John Calvin's numbering) can be found below:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 1 ARTICLE 3

Notice that Sunday did not substitute Saturday, nor is Sunday the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the Sabbath, Sunday, on the other hand, is the Lord's Day.

Geiermann's The Convert's Catechism seems to be one of those sources that continues to only be used by anti-Catholics. It isn't official Catholic teaching, and so using it as though it were is misleading. Fr. Geiermann's personal opinion, or perhaps his own misunderstanding and error, may have been that the Sabbath was shifted over to Sunday, but that isn't the teaching of the ancient fathers or of the Church Catholic, either East or West. The Sabbath is the Sabbath, Sunday is Sunday. They're different.

EDIT: And just to add, I'm unsure of which Council of Laodicea is being referenced, the only Council of Laodicea I am aware of is from the 360's (circa 363-364 AD); and none of the canons produced by it speak of Sunday becoming a new Sabbath. There is one that says that the Gospels should be read on the Sabbath (aka Saturday), because Christians didn't only meet on the Lord's Day; and one that forbids Christians from resting on the Sabbath in participation of Jewish religious practice (pretty typical general prohibition against participating in "Judaizing" aka trying to make Christians pretend to be Jewish and being legalistic). But certainly nothing I can see which mentions Sunday now being the Sabbath. And further, Laodicea was not an ecumenical council.

-CryptoLutheran

eleos1954 said:

Salvation is totally up to Jesus. Only God knows the heart and who will be saved .... who are we to speculate? We'll know when He returns.

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I 100% agree with this part of his post though, don't you @ViaCrucis...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

I 100% agree with this part of his post though, don't you @ViaCrucis...?

God Bless!

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I agree with that part.

I was mostly just interested in trying to clear up misinformation in my previous post.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

I agree with that part.

I was mostly just interested in trying to clear up misinformation in my previous post.

-CryptoLutheran

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And I thank you for doing so, why I marked it "informative"...

God Bless!

Tellyontellyon said:

Seventh Day Adventist...
... They are still Christian right? That worship on Saturday thing... I know some disagree with the day... but they are still going to heaven, yes?

Are there any other significant differences?

Click to expand...

One would think this is a easy answer.. and it is. yes they are saved aka Christians (followers of Yeshua). I say that because they say they believe Jesus came in the flesh born by the virgin Mary and died for the sin of the world was buried rose the 3rd day and is at the right hand of the Father. What each personally believe I can not tell you. So anyone that believes this are His.

Anyone can from their heart ask every god out there if your real and mean it from the heart only ONE will answer. Right now this moment is the day or salvation. He is knocking .. we hear it.. answer

Tellyontellyon said:

Seventh Day Adventist...
... They are still Christian right? That worship on Saturday thing... I know some disagree with the day... but they are still going to heaven, yes?

Are there any other significant differences?

Click to expand...

Yes and Yes.

As this ChristianityToday 2015 Feb article on Dr. Ben Carson and Seventh-day Adventists points out -
Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?
-- It is the fifth largest Christian denomination in the World.

BTW - Messianic Jewish Christians, Seventh-day Baptists and many other groups also accept the Bible Sabbath.

I am Adventist (SDA - Seventh-day Adventist)

Adventists have what they call "the Five S's" as unique doctrines that define them -- and are "significant differences"

1. Sabbath (Ex 20:8-12, Rev 14, Gen 2:1-3)
2. Sanctuary of God in heaven (See Heb 8:1-5)
3. State of the Dead -- i.e. Soul sleep in John 11 and 1 Thess 4:13-18
4. Second Coming (see Matt 24, Rev 19, 2 Thess 1)
5. Spiritual Gifts including of Prophecy as per 1 Cor 12.

All of these are shared by some other groups in some fashion but there is something very distinctive to Adventism in each of the 5 as they become key points of truth at the end of time.

eleos1954 said:

In the Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday....

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!

A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, and there are Christians in and out of all the various faith groups.

Salvation is totally up to Jesus. Only God knows the heart and who will be saved .... who are we to speculate? We'll know when He returns.

Click to expand...

Thank you for posting that. It is interesting that although Adventists do not agree with the argument in favor of Sunday being the new substitute - we do agree that this reasoning above is appealing to certain historic facts that are key to how some folks view the rationale for substituting one day for another.

ViaCrucis said:

The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine by Fr. Peter Geiermann isn't an official source of Catholic teaching. Official teaching can be found, instead, in the actual Catechism of the Catholic Church,

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It is not that simple. The Papal Imprimature is placed on documents whose teaching the Vatican deems to be in line with the Catechism. And the Convert's Catechism has the Imprimature --the Vatican's endorsement.

The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine | PDF | Sanctification | Grace In Christianity

The same is true of "The Faith Explained" by Leo J. Trese, with it's chapter 17 (XVII) on what they call the 2nd and 3rd commandments.

As anyone can tell who reads them - they are in agreement with the Catholic Catechism. So it is no wonder they are used in Catholic instruction and in Catholic Universities as references.

Tellyontellyon said:

Seventh Day Adventist...
... They are still Christian right? That worship on Saturday thing... I know some disagree with the day... but they are still going to heaven, yes?

Are there any other significant differences?

Click to expand...

Nobody knows who's going to heaven or who isn't, we do not know the secret things. Only God knows the heart ... not us.

I think it would be wise to quit speculating who is or is not going to heaven .... salvation is totally up to Jesus.

BobRyan said:

Thank you for posting that. It is interesting that although Adventists do not agree with the argument in favor of Sunday being the new substitute - we do agree that this reasoning above is appealing to certain historic facts that are key to how some folks view the rationale for substituting one day for another.

Click to expand...

Jesus (who is God) kept the 7th day Sabbath, we are to follow in His steps ..... He is our example in all things.

That in itself is reason enough .... there are indeed other reasons ... but I like to keep things simple whenever possible.

1 Peter 2

21 For you have been called for this purpose, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you would follow in His steps,

Tellyontellyon said:

Seventh Day Adventist...
... They are still Christian right? That worship on Saturday thing... I know some disagree with the day... but they are still going to heaven, yes?

Are there any other significant differences?

Click to expand...

God's command to keep the 7th day holy is not the command to only worship Him on the 7th day, but rather the Israelites worshiped God on every day, which included keeping the 7th day holy. Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, including keeping the 7th day holy, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so following Christ's example of keeping the 7th day holy is certainly part of what it means to be a Christian.

However, Seventh Day Adventists follow the teachings of Ellen G. White, who is considered by many to be a false prophet. If we needed to have perfect doctrine in order to enter heaven, then it would be rather empty, but at the same time I think it is possible for someone to have such as poor understanding of what it means to follow Christ that they aren't actually following him in spite of thinking that is what they are doing. However, it is up to God to decide where that line is and what is sufficient to bar someone from entering heaven.

Soyeong said:

However, Seventh Day Adventists follow the teachings of Ellen G. White, who is considered by many to be a false prophet. .

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Everyone in the Bible accepted the Bible teaching that God works through prophets -- that is not unique to Seventh-day Adventists.

What we don't see on these threads or in normal practice is a rejection by SDAs of the Bible teaching on prophets or a rejection of "sola scriptura" testing all of doctrine - as we see in Mark 7:6-13.

This is why even ChristianityToday calls the Seventh-day Adventist denomination the "fifth largest Christian denomination in the world" in its Feb 2015 article on a political candidate and his affiliation with Seventh-day Adventists.