Right & wrong

Carico said:

And who made up his words, words that never contradicted themselves? Words that prophesied and uttered truths that have never been disproven?

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Geez, man, can't you stick to the issue? The issue is whether or not a normal human could have made them up. Youv'e given nothing at all to indicate that one couldn't.

markie said:

If Jesus had lied He would have been sinning and therefore would not have been the perfect sacrifice. I suppose a normal man who could talk would have had the ability to say the things that Jesus said, but he couldn't have done the things that Jesus did and he would have to had a weird imagination to say them. Another man was physically able to say what Jesus said but not mentally or spiritually able to keep the prophecies about Jesus that are in the old testament.

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This entire post is very subjective and entirely a matter of opinion. The world's Jews believe that Jesus didn't keep any prophecies from the OT. In any case, it's not at issue. What IS at issue is whether or not a normal man would have been able to say what Jesus said; you ahve admitted he could.

Carico said:

Jesus's words speak for themselves. He has already shown the world who he is through his words and actions. If you have the capacity to think them through, then you will see why they could not have been thought of by another human being.

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Actually, it looks to me like it would only take a reasonably intelligent human being to think up those words.

Matthew 21:21 "And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." Also to be found in Mark 11:24-25, Luke 11:9-13, John 14:13-14

I can easily claim that this is not the case since most prayers are not anwsered and mountains have only been moved by Mohammed so far.

Matthew 16:28 "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” and he told Caiaphas (Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62) "Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven" Jesus obviously claims that Caiaphas will see Jesus' second coming. Which did not happen.
He told his followers as well that some of them would not see death until his second coming, which didn't happen either. Matthew 24:29-35 "Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away"

Paul and John both believed they were living in the last time (Hebrews 1:2 for Paul and 1 John 2:18 for John). Boy, they were wrong. These persons who got things wrong have written the bible..... Makes you wonder.

There are more, see this page on the NIV f.e.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=john+7%3A8
Notice how they note, that some early manuscripts don't have yet in it. I can understand how the later manuscripts made sure that yet was inserted.

There are more when you look for them......

Lucy

Carico said:

It couldn't be you, Eudaimonist, because your arguments contradict themselves incessantly! Saying you don't want to go to hell but choosing it over heaven, declaring that you know better than Jesus does when you've done NOTHING to show the world you do, and on and on. Until you can see through your own contradictions, you are in no position to see the truth of Jesus's words and why they cannot be fabricated by another human being.

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Despite yourself, you brighten my day. Thanks, Carico.

Carico said:

And who made up his words, words that never contradicted themselves? Words that prophesied and uttered truths that have never been disproven?

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James Bond's words never contradict themselves.

James Bond has uttered truths that have never been disproven.

Doesn't seem to be such a big deal, does it?

Carico said:

It couldn't be you, Eudaimonist, because your arguments contradict themselves incessantly! Saying you don't want to go to hell but choosing it over heaven, declaring that you know better than Jesus does when you've done NOTHING to show the world you do, and on and on. Until you can see through your own contradictions, you are in no position to see the truth of Jesus's words and why they cannot be fabricated by another human being.

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Such a large beam you have there... You know, the forty-foot invisible bunny in your backyard that controls your destiny hasn't been disproven either.

And for some reason you still don't see that Jesus' words are not in question here, yours are.

markie said:

Jesus Christ was the fulfilling of the law, and I would try to explain it if I thought you wanted to know but I think you just want to argue. You may have gone to church for 25 years but since you blaspheme God and Jesus Christ like you do you most definitely were not a Christian.

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Blah,Blah,blah,blah!!! Resorting to ad hominem are we? You see into my heart and know that I never trult followed the god of the bible, you have just shown that rather than prove your faith you must judge the heart of an unbeliever, and... I see you are one of those "once saved,always saved" christians. Um... did you never read about jesus teaching about the unpardonable sin, or Pauls???

And get this through your head, I am not blaspheming "god"[as in the Universal Creator, that is the job of you revealed religonists], I am blaspheming YOUR god{and christ} because "he" does not exist, I find it kinda therapuetic to do so, after years of indoctrination.

Carico said:

Jesus's words speak for themselves. He has already shown the world who he is through his words and actions. If you have the capacity to think them through, then you will see why they could not have been thought of by another human being. Until you can prove any of his words a lie, your statements about him are slander, pure and simple.

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my goodness Carico, have you not been paying attention, we have proven him false time and time again.
And how do you know his words? as someone esle pointed out we know only a TINY fraction of what Jesus and said throughout his entire life{even only small fraction of what he did and said during his 3 year cult..er...I mean,Ministry}.

I am going to send you a private message Carico, since I can't give links here that promote something other than the xian faith, nor put in links that have the evidence that what we speak is fact and truth; so therefore, I am going to send you a private message w/those links.

good day

Holy Heretic said:

my goodness Carico, have you not been paying attention, we have proven him false time and time again.
And how do you know his words? as someone esle pointed out we know only a TINY fraction of what Jesus and said throughout his entire life{even only small fraction of what he did and said during his 3 year cult..er...I mean,Ministry}.

I am going to send you a private message Carico, since I can't give links here that promote something other than the xian faith, nor put in links that have the evidence that what we speak is fact and truth; so therefore, I am going to send you a private message w/those links.

good day

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Lets see if this works then..

www

.jesusneverexisted


.org



www.

evilbible


.com


www

.exchristian


.net
{specificaly go to the top of page one and click on "archives" and peruse through there}


www

.deism


.org



www.


deism


.com



www


.universist


.org

Holy Heretic : Your links hold about as much interest to a Christian as our Bible does to you.

Tell me... Are you deliberating breaking a CF rule?

Carico: You can not argue anyone into belief. Time to dust off the sandals.

Carico said:

Jesus's words speak for themselves. He has already shown the world who he is through his words and actions. If you have the capacity to think them through, then you will see why they could not have been thought of by another human being. Until you can prove any of his words a lie, your statements about him are slander, pure and simple.

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Now you resort to ad hominem? Plesae. There is nothing in Jesus' words that could not have been thought of and said by another human being, nor have you even attempted to show how their is.

And your last statement is simply a lie; I am in no way slandering Jesus.

Stormy said:

Holy Heretic : Your links hold about as much interest to a Christian as our Bible does to you.

Tell me... Are you deliberating breaking a CF rule?

Carico: You can not argue anyone into belief. Time to dust off the sandals.

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Stormy, I'm sorry if christians minds are closed. I at least have given your bible a fair try{beeing that I was a christian for 25 years and really hardcore for about ten}, I have also seen some of the apologetics, read some christian novels, used to watch Jack Van Impe, James Robson, etc.
I have given your info a fair try, if you do not wish to do the same-that is your choice.

Oh, and I broke the rule{and will likely get banned for it} because
you guys at this site have deliberately tried to bait non-christians and freethinkers{I mean the box in the registration for RELIGION, actually has reliogons/philosophys such as "Deism" in it} to come in here onto your debate forums, and you can share links w/us containing your info and your evidences to back up what you are saying, and your bible scriptures,etc. But we can't do the same{I mean, I figured I could do it in a private message I send someone-nope, can't even do that}. This is a double standard, you christians bait us via the mans I above desrcibed and expect us to listen to your views and can even get away w/giving links and outside info, but we can't give links to back up what we are saying, THAT IS UNFAIR and Double-standarded{is beeing unfair and double standarded very Christlike??? According to your modern christianitys intrpretation of this man, it is not!} Obviuosly, you do not wish to see what we have to back ourselves up, obviuosly you include these debate boards and things like 'deist' in your registrations RELIGONS thing simply to bait us and not even give us the opportunity to share our evidence w/you. That is deceptive! If I get banned for this and for saying this, so be it! I don't really care! your doube-standards, your hypocrisys, your censorship, your fear of us, your closed mindedness, the deceptive way in which you bait us unbeleivers, proves what we are trying to show you...that your faith is false, and that you are all hypocrites, yuor fruits have shown themselves{perhaps you could say the same about us/ or just me... sure, but we/or at least I know...I don't hide my intent and my fruits, I make it abundantly clear that I am out to challenge revealed religon,christianity especially}. So Mods, do as you wish{and thank you all for proving our/my point}

cheerio

You wont get banned , you'll probobly just get warned .

Carico said:

Sorry, Holy heretic, but words cannot prove the truth or falseness of Christianity. The truth stands on its own merit. So far, Jesus has never been proven a liar after 2,000 years, but if you think you can do what no man before you has, then give it the old college try. If you're that convinced that you know better than Jesus does, then by all means, pass along your widom to others. But dou don't fool me. Sorry.

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You keep repeating that Jesus has never been proven a liar. So what? We have a tiny fraction of his words, and in none of those words is there a lie. Big deal. We can say precisely the same of the Buddha, of Ghandi, and for that matter of Caesar and Charlemagne. The fact that none of the fraction of Jesus' words we have are lies proves absolutely nothing.

cool, it worked that time, I did'nt have to space them out like before, sweetness!!

Holy Heretic said:

cool, it worked that time, I did'nt have to space them out like before, sweetness!!

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I read the links concerning the faith that you have chosen. I found them empty.

There is no way that I have a desire to read the garbage of your first three links. Evil Bible? Yes, maybe to you. Jesus never lived? No, sorry but you are wrong. And I see no reason whatsoever to go looking for testimonies of exchristians, we get to here them up front and personal right here.

Now, I got to see if someone is awake to take out the garbage that you had such a strong urge to dump on our forum.