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By "not those that clearly contradict what can be observed in God's creation", I'm thinking particularly of the Flood miracle. Such a miracle is said to have had devastating physical effects on the earth -- effects that we see no trace of on the earth today. Therefore, the description of the miracle contradicts what we can observe today.Isn't that close to the definition of a miracle? I see miracles as being contrary to what we normally observe.
Isn't that close to the definition of a miracle? I see miracles as being contrary to what we normally observe.
Sometimes miracles leave traces that can be looked at (Jesus turning water into wine - you could examine the wine) -- but you must be careful. If you just see the wine, you may want to think there was a grape sometime inthe past.
Just to be clear - for some of us, a global flood is a superior explanation for the formation of the geologic structures that we see. For example, there are continent size layers in several locations -- either one must talk about many huge "local" floods... or a global flood. There are also so-called "out of order" layers that extend for hundreds of miles -- again, much better explained using the global flood model. Far from "no evidence", there is a world full of direct evidence -- it all depends on how one interprets it.Consider a global flood, on the other hand. There is no effect to observe. How can causes be posited for an effect that ought to leave traces but hasn't? If such a flood had occurred, no doubt, science would look for material causes. It might be able to find some, if there were any (in which case, the miracle would be a miracle of providence and not special intervention). But, at any rate, the historicity of a global flood would not be denied because the corresponding effects would be measurable.
The part where redemption actually involves God's activities in Time and Space, human history and reality.
An 'occasional hero' is your answer...and you really asked me which part is unclear...wow...I'm astonished beyond words.
Just to be clear - for some of us, a global flood is a superior explanation for the formation of the geologic structures that we see. For example, there are continent size layers in several locations -- either one must talk about many huge "local" floods... or a global flood. There are also so-called "out of order" layers that extend for hundreds of miles -- again, much better explained using the global flood model. Far from "no evidence", there is a world full of direct evidence -- it all depends on how one interprets it.
" Some of the Bible describes redemptive history by using wild flights of fancy."
I guess this is the one I have the most trouble with. To me -- history should be historical, i.e. factually true. I don't expect a wild flight of fancy to be factually true -- so I wouldn't call it history.
" Some of the Bible describes redemptive history by using wild flights of fancy."
I guess this is the one I have the most trouble with. To me -- history should be historical, i.e. factually true. I don't expect a wild flight of fancy to be factually true -- so I wouldn't call it history.
Why can't God use wild flights of fancy to describe history? Just look at Revelations. John was definitely out of this world" Some of the Bible describes redemptive history by using wild flights of fancy."
I guess this is the one I have the most trouble with. To me -- history should be historical, i.e. factually true. I don't expect a wild flight of fancy to be factually true -- so I wouldn't call it history.
Do you REALLY believe that a 1st century Roman historian's report on the geneology in Genesis shows that the Jewish culture was so very different from surrounding cultures in 700BC?Um, no, not necessarily. The Hebrew culture was unique and distinct from the surrounding people -- monotheistic, etc.
For example - this paper http://www.creationontheweb.com/images/pdfs/tj/v17n3_chronogenealogies.pdf
quotes an extensive passage from Josephus where he uses the various chronology dates in a very YEC like fashion - calculating the dates and ages based on the geaneaologies. These were seen as real people, with real ages and real offspring -- not a myth.
So you do not agree with dawkins all or none position? He seems to have a fair number of recruits.Exactly. Either accept Creationism and God or accept science, you can't have both. I'm sure this will really help win souls over.
I listened to his hour long lecture where he was plugging the book. Then I listed to a part of the second hour when he answered questions. Also there is a interview with him in Time magazine. Actually it was a debate between him and Francis Collins sense they are both trying to sell books right now.Has anyone read the book?
either one must talk about many huge "local" floods... or a global flood.
So after I've quite my job the first day, what do i do the next day?grl4christ17 said:hey here's a quote by robert frost- live everyday as if it were your last
my dad one time told me he had met the most intelligent person in his life at work.So after I've quite my job the first day, what do i do the next day?
Yeah I guess, I mean I wouldnt be able to work my notice period anywayAssyrian said:Why quit your job if it is your last day?
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