Religious intolerance :(

universalmessenger · Jun 29, 2007

i have noticed that a lot of people are in denial and aren't even consciously aware of their bigotry. this happens a lot in religion. they claim they are all Christ-like one min then the next min they turn around and discriminate against others based on their faith. and the entire time they will declare "They are the perfect Christian! They don't judge others! They love everybody! They are so open-minded and forgiving!" etc, without ever realizing the hypocrisy or the bigotry within their own actions.

Peach81 · Jun 29, 2007

elijah115 said:
I said reject "being participants in genocide". You twisted what I said into one word "bigotry" so you could argue against me (when I didn't say that the way you put it).

You said "Whoever is in Christ should not have thoughts of racism, sexism, or any prejudice." The word "bigotry" is an umbrella term for racism, sexism, and a synonym of prejudice.

I am born black. People cannot born gay.

Source, please?

You should read the debate that going on here, before lauching. It's easy to disagree with everything someone says just because they are christian, not because you actually disagree with them on everything.

I wouldn't care if you worshipped frogs. I don't tend to disagree with someone just because of their religion. On the contrary, I've been reading many posts by Christians and find that I agree with them on many things. However, I responded to something you said because I disagreed with it. If you didn't like it, that's your problem, not mine.

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 29, 2007

Interestingly you say Christians are against murder. But in Christian America you murder people (capital punishment) for their sins.

In the Muslim world (Saudi Arabia for example) people are murdered for their sins

In secular Britain, no persons are murdered for their sin.

How many murders are committed in Britain percentage wise compared to Islamic run [and Secular run countries such as the U.S.]?

Not all States in the U.S. have capital punishment, though I could be wrong. Peace.

universalmessenger · Jun 29, 2007

elijah115 said:
Whoever is in Christ should not have thoughts of racism, sexism, or any prejudice.

i totally disagree. this does not happen. maybe they shouldn't have those thoughts but they do.

elijah115 · Jun 29, 2007

ChordatesLegacy said:
America on the face of it my looks secular, but as we all know Bush was very dependent on the Bible belt to get him into power. I also gather he has weekly conversations with religious leaders.

Every time there is a disaster or tragedy in America, the president leads the nation in prayer.

If the shuttle is launched, again its the Lords Prayer

I also think, but not certain, that all children recite some verse in school, in which it is stated that America is protected by God.

From outside, it appears everything America does, it does with Gods blessing or gods protection.

All this preying has not been to successful for the USA of late.

If a prime minister in Britain was to make a speach, and finish it with the statement in gods name or in god we trust, he or she would lose all credibility, and probably be out of a job pretty soon.

So in Americas case I use the word ignorance to mean the religious people who believe in creationism, young Earth, intelligent design, miracles and heavenly intervention.

For it is these people that are being blindly lead by religious zealots, in the name of god, whilst being told they must have blind faith.

I fully understand what your position is. I entirely expected you to mention how some Americans like to think Christianity is the foundation of their society. What you've identified is logical, exists and we can see it, if we are honest.

And if you will look beyond playing a semantics game, you will see that religious intolerance is the equivalent of you not tolerating christians and muslims, because you would like them not vote in accordance with what they believe. What is a vote if you are not allowed to have a voice?

Some atheists are ignorant with regarding to understanding religious matters, should we take away their voting privileges because they don't understand theists and lack the knowledge? Would it be religiously tolerant? Atheists can be ignorant too, should we let these ignorant people loose and allow them to have their own positions on things, even vote on them? (The horror!)

Everything is permissible, but not everything needs to be divisive. Just because you don't agree with some christians and christianity doesn't make them ignorant (lacking in knowledge). Aren't you judging them based on your beliefs as an evolutionist and an atheist? What I can "see through" about you is that you'd call a person who is a Professor in Biology and a christian ignorant because they believe in God, not because of lack of knowledge.

You really haven't demonstrated that ignorance is the bane of all societies; just so far shown how convenient it is to misuse the word "ignorant" when you don't agree with people or can't impose your beliefs on others. I'd really like to know how ignorance has been and is the bane of all societies. If you don't convince me, I am able to walk away from the debate by agreeing to disagreeing with you without calling you or anyone else ignorant because they don't agree with me.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

universalmessenger · Jun 29, 2007

elijah115 said:
Yesterday, all the churches (of every denomination, c100) in my borough (in the UK) got together to pray for our borough. We have this kind of meeting 3 times a year.

czach8 said:
And praise God brother, for that is how it should be.

i agree! nice testimony.

Entrench · Jun 29, 2007

The sad truth is that there is intolerance, much of it twisted around religion, and law. However, i feel it often comes down that the intolerance is seen and ignored. Strange as though it may sound, intolerance itself can be tolerated. Elaborating, people can be intolerant, however when they use their faith as the basis there of, that is when members of that faith must intervene, lest their beliefs are misunderstood based on their inaction.

universalmessenger · Jun 29, 2007

czach8 said:
I have found a good verse from the Hua Hu Ching that definitely guides all of us in how to deal with tolerance:

Hua Hu Ching 15 says, "To the ordinary being, others often require tolerance. To the mature being, there is no such thing as tolerance, because there is no such thing as other. She has given up all ideas of individuality and extended her goodwill without prejudice in every direction. Never hating, never resisting, never contesting, she is simply always learning and being. Loving, hating, having expectations: all these are attachments. Attachment prevents the growth of one's true being. Therefore the integral being is attached to nothing and can relate to everyone with an unstructured attitude. Because of this, her very existence benefits all things. You see, that which has form is equal to that which is without form, and that which is alive is equal to that which rests. This is the subtle truth, not a religious invention, but only those who are already mature will understand this.

I prefer to adhere with this principle. God bless you all.

Wow this is so beautiful! i felt like it described me to the T! i told u i didn't know where i fit in. but now it makes perfect sense. but i did not understand this line:

You see, that which has form is equal to that which is without form, and that which is alive is equal to that which rests.

plz explain.

do u do i-ching???

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 29, 2007

universalmessenger said:
Wow this is so beautiful! i felt like it described me to the T! i told u i didn't know where i fit in. but now it makes perfect sense. but i did not understand this line:

You see, that which has form is equal to that which is without form, and that which is alive is equal to that which rests.

plz explain.

do u do i-ching???

Hi. That is what Paul tried to explain to his followers also.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And, even as we have borne the image of the man of earth, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.

universalmessenger · Jun 29, 2007

ChordatesLegacy said:
By the time the murdering starts it’s to late, and you are right, at that point fear, self preservation, cowardice etc do come into it. But its ignorance by the masses that gets you to that point. You must be sceptical and question any group that says it knows best, particularly of groups who do not elect their leaders (i.e. religions, dictatorships)

i agree.

elijah115 · Jun 29, 2007

Entrench said:
The sad truth is that there is intolerance, much of it twisted around religion, and law. However, i feel it often comes down that the intolerance is seen and ignored. Strange as though it may sound, intolerance itself can be tolerated. Elaborating, people can be intolerant, however when they use their faith as the basis there of, that is when members of that faith must intervene, lest their beliefs are misunderstood based on their inaction.

True to an extent.

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 29, 2007

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hi. That is what Paul tried to explain to his followers also.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And, even as we have borne the image of the man of earth, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Ezekiel also has one like in the image of "Adam".

Ezekiel 1:26 And above the expanse that was over their heads, as the appearance of a sapphire stone, was the likeness of a throne,--and upon the likeness of a throne, was a likeness as the appearance of a man/0120 'adam upon it above.

0120 'adam {aw-dawm'} from 0119; TWOT - 25a; n m
AV - man 408, men 121, Adam 13, person(s) 8, common sort + 07230 1, hypocrite 1; 552
1) man, mankind

elijah115 · Jun 29, 2007

Peach81 said:
You said "Whoever is in Christ should not have thoughts of racism, sexism, or any prejudice." The word "bigotry" is an umbrella term for racism, sexism, and a synonym of prejudice.

Source, please?

I wouldn't care if you worshipped frogs. I don't tend to disagree with someone just because of their religion. On the contrary, I've been reading many posts by Christians and find that I agree with them on many things. However, I responded to something you said because I disagreed with it. If you didn't like it, that's your problem, not mine.

Which is fine by me. On the issue of whether "being gay" is innate, I've already pointed you to the Ethics & Morality subforum. I'm not going to derail this thread.

universalmessenger · Jun 29, 2007

Peach81 said:
Easy for you to say. Those people had just lost a war and were in the midst of a horrible depression. People had lost everything, and when the charasmatic Hitler came along and gave them all a scapegoat to blame, it was only natural that they would buy into it.

And it's funny that you mention that anyone who truly believes in Christ would reject bigotry, because most of the problems in this country dealing with racism, sexism, or any kind of prejudice come from the biggest bible-thumping Jesus freaks. In fact, they always seem to use the bible to back up their prejudices. Since racism and sexism have since fallen out of chic, the wheel of hate has turned to homosexuals.

Albert Einstein wasn't ignorant, was he? He was a learned scientist who has since been immortalized by his theory of relativity. Comparing Einstein to the rest of the German masses is like comparing Thomas Edison to your average American.

i totally agree with everything u just said here.

elijah115 · Jun 29, 2007

universalmessenger said:
i totally disagree. this does not happen. maybe they shouldn't have those thoughts but they do.

I said "should not" for a reason, I didn't say "does not". If a person is not acting in accordance with what they profess to believe, then they are not really a good witness for God.

elijah115 · Jun 29, 2007

ChordatesLegacy said:
America on the face of it my looks secular, but as we all know Bush was very dependent on the Bible belt to get him into power. I also gather he has weekly conversations with religious leaders.

Every time there is a disaster or tragedy in America, the president leads the nation in prayer.

If the shuttle is launched, again its the Lords Prayer

I also think, but not certain, that all children recite some verse in school, in which it is stated that America is protected by God.

From outside, it appears everything America does, it does with Gods blessing or gods protection.

All this preying has not been to successful for the USA of late.

If a prime minister in Britain was to make a speach, and finish it with the statement in gods name or in god we trust, he or she would lose all credibility, and probably be out of a job pretty soon.

So in Americas case I use the word ignorance to mean the religious people who believe in creationism, young Earth, intelligent design, miracles and heavenly intervention.

For it is these people that are being blindly lead by religious zealots, in the name of god, whilst being told they must have blind faith.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5550173-is-america-the-paragon-of-a-christian-state.html

universalmessenger · Jun 29, 2007

ChordatesLegacy said:
Amazingly I agree with a lot of what you have stated, but I have a few disagreements. Firstly: we humans stand along, yes I am a firm believer in hard work, and that we should strive for a better world. However, we get no help from God, if all humans decided to sit on our arses all day, then we would all starve. Secondly: humans are responsible for both our mistakes and our successes; hopefully we will learn from our mistakes and repeat our successes. Thirdly: I think Americanas leaders make too much of prising the Lord. Being outside America perhaps its easier for me and other to see it for what it is, a gimmick, to keep the support of the foolish religious masses.

Lets be honest, Americans would never vote for a president who was anything other a practicing Christian, no matter how good a job he would do.

Without sounding to extreme, if the chose was between a Christian imbecile and a non Christian person of high calibre, Americans would vote for the imbecile. What I am saying is, being a avid Christian (even if its only a front) is a prerequisite for the presidents job

lol this was funny. i agree.

elijah115 · Jun 29, 2007

from 2 Thessalonians 3:10

2TH 3:6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

universalmessenger · Jun 29, 2007

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hi. That is what Paul tried to explain to his followers also.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And, even as we have borne the image of the man of earth, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.

hun? i'm confused.

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 29, 2007

universalmessenger said:
hun? i'm confused.

That goes back to Genesis as Paul describes here.

Gene 5:5 And they are becoming all of days of Adam which he lives, nine hundreds year and-thirty year and he is dying [1 corin 15:22].

1 Corinthians 15:22 For just as in the Adam, all are dying, so also in the Christ all shall be being made alive.

Religious intolerance :(

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