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Thing is, I don't know a physicist personally or otherwise who doesn't speak with wonder and almost a mystique about the universe. Which is pretty much pantheism without admitting the label. You can't get away from theism that easily, but it's much easier to earn the label of atheist but still act like a pantheist by semi- or fully personifying the universe.
It's precisely because they're opposite in this sense that they work together. Religion is all about revealed truth or faith, but many times you can't really know for sure if a certain so-called truth is really a truth. In comes science to make a claim about something, like pointing out how all thinking is inherent to the brain. Then I'm able to modify my previous belief that only the soul, rather than the body, is about thinking.
Religion uses science to blot out any religious ideas that can't be the case because of scientific revelation.
That was my point with einstein's thoughts on the subject. Sure, they see the universe with wonderment, but that doesnt mean many dont think that wonderment cant come from natural means.
And here's where the impasse will come with disagreements over subtle important things. I don't think you can have wonderment in the universe *as a whole* without having a Pantheist flavor. I think you can have wonder about particular things, and that would be basic nontheistic wonder, an extension of curiosity. But wonder toward "the universe" or "everything" is pure Pantheism, IMO.
Would that not still be appreciation of the Works of God?
And here's where the impasse will come with disagreements over subtle important things. I don't think you can have wonderment in the universe *as a whole* without having a Pantheist flavor. I think you can have wonder about particular things, and that would be basic nontheistic wonder, an extension of curiosity. But wonder toward "the universe" or "everything" is pure Pantheism, IMO.
From a Christian panentheistic perspective, that would be something like wonder at the "body" of God. Willard said that God is to the universe as we are to our bodies.
I think one can have wonderment without invoking a God, but that is just my opinion.
I would disagree with Willard. I would say that the universe is to God like a developing embryo is to it's Mother and Father.
I would disagree with Willard. I would say that the universe is to God like a developing embryo is to it's Mother and Father.
Sorry for the digression, Usus, but can you help me place you? Does your "oneness" view mean Pentecostal Oneness, Universalist Oneness, or Pantheistic Oneness? It seems important to this particular discussion.
No worries, sure! Mathematical oneness and "Shema Israel" oneness. Oneness of God before all creation, Oneness of God outside all the universes, Oneness of God ruling all universes, Oneness of the Kingdom of Heaven established all universes.
The oneness of the KoH is similar to the oneness of the 7 colors in white light.
Like the human body is one: A wholoarchy of simultaneously arising integrated parts.
I don't think that's terrible inconsistent with Willard's view. I always viewed God's omnipresence as infinitely "bigger" than the everexpanding universe. It's just that, if the universe is all of physical stuff, then only through the universe can God act in physical ways.
I don't think that's terrible inconsistent with Willard's view. I always viewed God's omnipresence as infinitely "bigger" than the everexpanding universe. It's just that, if the universe is all of physical stuff, then only through the universe can God act in physical ways.
To really "nutshell" the story:
Before the beginning was GOD and GOD was fully every where. A nothing did not exist.
GOD spoke his own Name and God happened:
The Word vibrated GOD until void space was made where the fullness of GOD was not. The Spirit of God and the Son of God was left in GOD's receding wake.
The vibration of the Word causes the Image of God to appear in the space created and these are the Laws of the universe. The Image has 10 powers/principalities.
We are made in "Their" Image.
Some might say we are holographic...but actually we are sono-morphic: Vibration creates form. Light bounces off of form.
Do you have any writings of your own or anyone else you recommend on this train of thought?
Lol, but not enough to say you're speechless.
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