Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
vossler said:O.K. Here we go again...I say:
Then you say:
Where did I say anything about hard work? Or praying the hardest? Again you twist and distort what I say to make it confom with what you want me to say.
How can a theory that is wrong and of the thief be practical? We've spent countless $$$, time and energy promoting a theory that in the end will prove fruitless. That's very unpractical and specific.
I think that goes without saying, hard work is relevent. For me praising God is acknowledging Him in all that I do, realizing that without Him I am nothing. Sometimes that takes the form of prayer, most of the time it's just a simple acknowledgement, I suppose some might consider that a prayer. It certainly isn't something that is done the 'hardest' whatever that might be.The Lady Kate said:That's just it... you said nothing about hard work. Is it not relevent? As for praying the hardest... what else in your opinion praises God?
As God's children shouldn't He give us 'bonuses'?The Lady Kate said:It still sounds like God gives bonuses in the here and now which He purposely keeps from others. Still sounds like health and wealth to me.
I'm not going to derail this thread into another topic. I was asked a question and I gave my response, I'm sorry if you don't believe it to be true.notto said:Anyting specific you can bring to bear on your claim that it is fruitless or unpractical? The worlds scientists seem to disagree. Why is that? Why would such a fruitless theory be taught even in Christian colleges and schools? How can a fruitless theory make so many valid predictions and explain so much of the data we have?
vossler said:I think that goes without saying, hard work is relevent. For me praising God is acknowledging Him in all that I do, realizing that without Him I am nothing. Sometimes that takes the form of prayer, most of the time it's just a simple acknowledgement, I suppose some might consider that a prayer. It certainly isn't something that is done the 'hardest' whatever that might be.
As God's children shouldn't He give us 'bonuses'?
I thought you said you weren't pushing a health and wealth gospel? Our 'bonus' is Christ, what else do we need? Are you suggesting that we need extra bonuses so we know God is pleased with us? Utter rubbish.vossler said:As God's children shouldn't He give us 'bonuses'?
For the most part that is true. I truly can't recall a well known scientist that has praised and acknowledged God for what he accomplished. If he/she exists I'd like for you to point him out because I'd like to have some hope in this area.The Lady Kate said:The whole point of this thread was that you claimed that by and large, scientists don't do this at all... with the exception of Carver.
Although I don't think of it in the terms you used, but in effect your first paragraph is true. I don't believe it smacks of arrogance in the least. This coincides well with my previous statements that God blesses His children.The Lady Kate said:But the impression I got earlier was the every hard working non-Christian was nothing more than a "Back-up" for God when a True Christian wasn't available... and that smacked of arrogance.
I'm fairly certain that's not the way you meant to portray it, but we should all choose our words carefully, lest someone get the wrong idea.
vossler said:For the most part that is true. I truly can't recall a well known scientist that has praised and acknowledged God for what he accomplished.
If he/she exists I'd like for you to point him out because I'd like to have some hope in this area.
I'm a bit confused, help me out here.
You said:
"It still sounds like God gives bonuses in the here and now which He purposely keeps from others. Still sounds like health and wealth to me."
To which I responded:
As God's children shouldn't He give us 'bonuses'?
Then you state:
Certainly... since you put it that way.
I don't believe I 'put it' anyway other than the way than the way you did.
Although I don't think of it in the terms you used, but in effect your first paragraph is true. I don't believe it smacks of arrogance in the least. This coincides well with my previous statements that God blesses His children.
This has nothing to do with my approval, but everything to do with acknowledging God and His role. Yeah they can do it in private, but what are they ashamed of? If God has enabled you to accomplish an important feat, why keep that fact a secret from others?The Lady Kate said:For what purpose? Such a person already has God's approval. Why should they seek yours?
I agree with this statement.The Lady Kate said:These are the terms you used. God uses non-Chirstians to do his will when Christians aren't available... do you agree with that statement... your statement... or not?
So because they haven't told you then they are keeping it a secret? You have no idea as to how Scientist who believe are bearing witness to their saviour yet you continue to call them cowards just because they aren't perched on a horse as high as yours.Yeah they can do it in private, but what are they ashamed of? If God has enabled you to accomplish an important feat, why keep that fact a secret from others
Gwenyfur said:To quote Sandage:
"...the scientific community is so scornful of faith that there is a reluctance to reveal yourself as a believer, the opprobrium is so severe."
The Case for a Creator ... Lee Strobel
Gwenyfur said:To quote Sandage:
"...the scientific community is so scornful of faith that there is a reluctance to reveal yourself as a believer, the opprobrium is so severe."
The Case for a Creator ... Lee Strobel
Yeah, we all believe in something!Donkeytron said:...and yet something like half of scientists are believers of one sort or another.
vossler said:Yeah, we all believe in something!
That's true, it takes a belief in something to believe that.The Lady Kate said:Obviously. But your claim (as near as I can tell... I wouldn't want to be accused of distorting your words again) was that scientists (at least most of them) do not believe in God.
I've always suspected that scientists weren't the most God fearing people around. That was based on some of my previous points I made where science and God always seemed like oil and water.The Lady Kate said:I am still at a loss to understand where you drew this conclusion from. Having already agreed that belief in God is not a necessary part of the scientific method (although He may very well be a part of the process, that is, inspiration, but that is a matter of faith), then where do you get your conclusion from?
IMO, his public recognition of God was only a small part of what made him such a good Christian scientist. The fact that he relied upon God for inspiration and direction is what truly made him a good scientist.The Lady Kate said:You offer up Carver as an example of a proper Christian scientist, primarily (again, as far as I can tell... don't want to be distorting anything) because after the fact, he gave public recognition and praise to God for His aid.
If I had, before posting his testimony, said that scientists should bring God into their scientific experiments, I believe most people here at CF would have attacked that statement.The Lady Kate said:Now, I have not yet seen anyone claim that what Carver did was in any way improper...
Yes, but the preferred way is in public.The Lady Kate said:God can get His glory in private just as well as in public. Which way one chooses to do so is entirely up to their discretion... did we not agree on that as well?
I personally don't know how one can believe in God and not believe he was involved with the process of life. Wouldn't this be an inept god and thereby no god at all?The Lady Kate said:The closest you have come to actual support for your claim was the survey that 55% of the scientific community believe that life originated through naturalistic means. I think we have well established that all this means is that God was not involved in the process, and not that there is no God at all.
That same Gallup poll stated that 87% of Americans call themselves Christians, or at least appear to do so. I believe if half of those actually were we would be fortunate. That would mean 40 - 45% of Americans were Christian. Using that same methodology then only 20 - 25% of scientists are Christians. It's not quite so narrow now.The Lady Kate said:And even if this were so, 55% while a majority, is a narrow margin. Certainly not indicative of "most scientists are Atheists" which is the message that many people, perhaps mistakenly, are getting from your posts.
I don't know about you, but I'm gathering information.The Lady Kate said:So... What are we doing here?
vossler said:I've always suspected that scientists weren't the most God fearing people around. That was based on some of my previous points I made where science and God always seemed like oil and water.
However, since coming here to CF this observation has really proven itself in so many ways. If one goes to the C&E area you'll see how separating God from science is tantamount to the ability to perform good science. You might say that this comes only from non-Christians, yet with few exceptions most Christians have a similar view.
IMO, his public recognition of God was only a small part of what made him such a good Christian scientist. The fact that he relied upon God for inspiration and direction is what truly made him a good scientist.
If I had, before posting his testimony, said that scientists should bring God into their scientific experiments, I believe most people here at CF would have attacked that statement.
Yes, but the preferred way is in public.
I personally don't know how one can believe in God and not believe he was involved with the process of life. Wouldn't this be an inept god and thereby no god at all?
That same Gallup poll stated that 87% of Americans call themselves Christians, or at least appear to do so. I believe if half of those actually were we would be fortunate.
That would mean 40 - 45% of Americans were Christian. Using that same methodology then only 20 - 25% of scientists are Christians. It's not quite so narrow now.
I don't know about you, but I'm gathering information.
No I don't possess any special insight, only the Word of God. This comes fro the Parable of the Sower in Luke 8:4-15.The Lady Kate said:Not our place to judge without proof. If 87% of Americans call themselves our brothers and sisters in Christ, then 87% of them are... unless we have some reason to think they lied on the poll.
Only because you've just called every other person who claims to be saved a liar. Are you in posession of some special insight into their souls that the rest of us lack?
vossler said:No I don't possess any special insight, only the Word of God. This comes fro the Parable of the Sower in Luke 8:4-15.
Hey, there you go again putting words into my mouth.The Lady Kate said:What you seem to have forgotten is that I too have the Word of God... and I see no reason not to reject half the people who call themselves brother and sister without even bothering to meet them.
The interesting thing about the parable of the sower is what is unsaid... that not even the sower himself knows which seed will sprout and which will not.... and yet, you do.
vossler said:Hey, there you go again putting words into my mouth.
I've never claimed to know which seeds will sprout and which won't. I simply said only a portion of those who claim to know God actually do.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?