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Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

Do You Adhear to Sola Scriptura?


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RC1970

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Well, Jesus was not too excited about the Pharisees tradition as He considered their views to be non-Scriptural. (Matthew 15:1-9)

So, I ask again, how do we know when they "honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men"?

Clearly, the Word of God supersedes the tradition of men and the only traditions that are legitimate are the traditions that correspond to the Word of God. Only Holy Scripture can bind the conscience.
 
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RC1970

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That is according to the tradition of men.

This is the Word of God:

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” ~ Romans 9:6-13

So if man's tradition were followed, what would have become of Israel?
 
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Dialogist

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Since the New Testament was actually produced by the Church, why should consider Holy Scripture as something to be discussed as something that is distinct from Holy Tradition?

I think one could even extend this thinking to the Old Testament, since the New Testament Church is simply the continuation and fulfillment of the Congregation of Israel.
 
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tulipbee

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You got a thousand more traditions to explain but why would I want to read them?
 
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Chandler50

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You got a thousand more traditions to explain but why would I want to read them?
Because we they are truth. Unless you read and critically think about their validity, you are basically a child saying they don't like something they have never tried.

If 1.1 billion people disagree with you on doctrine, and have the documents and history to back it up, that is worth researching. I converted to Catholicism because it is the only Church that had the documents and resources to prove their assertions and doctrine.
 
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Chandler50

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Thank you!
 
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Chandler50

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I literally quoted that book in my OP. Irenaeus affirms that apostolic succession occurred perfectly.

Do not just post a link to an entire book and say 'ha see'. Show the exact passage you think challenges apostolic succession so everyone can view it.
 
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Chandler50

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Apparently you have not read any other posts. If you are going to make a claim such as all Catholic traditions are 'unbiblical' you need to reference that claim. I do not adhere to a random person spouting their opinions, that is why I left Protestantism. Show me evidence for you accusation. Because as far as I have researched (which is extensively) there has never, and is not any doctrine or dogma that conflicts with biblical teaching. There are dogmas that are not directly refered to in the bible, but the church has this authority because it is led by the Holy Spirit, and it hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

So please show me credible evidence for an explicitly anti-biblical (not extra-biblical) tradition we hold that has been officially taught by the Catholic Church.
 
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Standing Up

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Chandler50 said:
I do not see anywhere that Peter hands off the key to the kingdom of heaven. Besides, what make you think that Peter had the authority to do so? Christ said I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. He could not have just given them to someone else, that is out of his authority.

Good job choosing a small quote and using it out of context...
Not at all. You rejected what Peter actually records for us (hands off authority to Asia Minor elders), but apply it in your OP for RC.

And as mentioned, you've used Tertullian's argument against others, but then again, per your OP, don't believe it applies to RC.

You gonna be able to keep all this straight?
 
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Chandler50

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He cannot hand off the keys to men, you know, the plural use. There is a big difference between handing off the keys to a group of elders, and someone assuming his role upon death who was ordained by Peter. Besides, this is a mute point because Peter is never recorded in the Bible to hand off the keys to those elders. You can google how many time the keys shows up in the Bible. It is twice and both are in Matthew for most translations.
 
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Chandler50

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You accusation is based on the assumption that our traditions are of man, they are not. They are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Christ founded the church and promised the gate of hell would not prevail, so no, we do not hold the traditions of man but of God.

If you assume that anything created by man is of man, then you might as well throw out the Bible, because guess who wrote it, men.

You would argue, but it was inspired of God. That is correct, in the same way tradition is inspired.

Also the term for 'word' you used in your verse means 'spoken word' not written word. Holy tradition is alive and endorsed by God everywhere throughout the Bible.
 
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Chandler50

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Holy scripture is tradition. How do you think we got the scriptures. Do you think the apostles wrote everything down a week after Jesus' death. No, they passed down his story orally for decades before the writers decided to record the gospel. Whether you like it or not, the scriptures were born from oral tradition, and the book you hold as authoritative were established by the Catholic Church during the council of Rome in the late 300's. So if you you do not believe in their authority, how do you know which books are inspired? Short of receiving personal revelation you cannot. The 'everyone believes in it so it must be true' argument does lot cut it either because not everyone does.
 
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Light of the East

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You got a thousand more traditions to explain but why would I want to read them?

No, I don't. Your statement shows me that you still don't understand the role of tradition vs Holy Tradition. The OP was speaking about Tradition vs the Bible as the final source of truth, wasn't it? So the issue you are concerned with is does Tradition contradict or support the Bible? Let's take just one issue to try to show that it supports the Bible.

The heretic, Arias, used the Bible only to support his heretical idea that Jesus is a created being, much the same as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses do today. They all have no problem cherry-picking certain verses and using them to say "Look, this is the Word of God and it is teaching that Jesus is not God."

Holy Tradition was appealed to at the Council of Nicea. The bishops who supported the truth of the Trinity simply said "From the beginning, this new understanding has not been the tradition of our fathers." End of story. Tradition is the link between what the Apostles taught and a proper interpretation of the Bible.

However, traditions with a small "t" do not have to do with dogma and Bible interpretation. For instance, the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church has a tradition of wearing red for Pentecost. In my Byzantine Catholic Church, we wear green. Each of us has a very valid symbolic reason for doing such, but these are not dogmas or biblical teachings. They are simply a discipline of worship, which is open to many different ways of expression. Red or green has nothing to do with the important dogma of the Bible.

The reason you would want to read them would be to learn, to understand the Church better, and to grasp the rich symbolisms of the Church.
 
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Light of the East

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Total misappropriation of the Scriptures. Paul is not addressing the issue of covenant headship here (if you are a Calvinist, I find it odd that you don't understand covenant principles). Paul is speaking to the issue of national Israel being set aside as the particular people of God. Verse 6 makes this clear when it speaks about "not all are Israel (i.e. the people of God) who are of Israel (i.e. national Israel, or the nation state).

Secondly, the aberration does not make the norm. You should know that. The normal manner of covenant headship passing on is from father to eldest son.
 
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Chandler50

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You got a thousand more traditions to explain but why would I want to read them?
Do you believe in the trinity, or that Christ is fully man and fully God? Guess what that is not a Protestant tradition. It is a tradition you adopted from the Catholic Church.
 
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Chandler50

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No, my OP is not about Scripture verses Tradition as the final source of authority. It is about recognizing both as equal sources of authority because they both are of God. You are approaching this question with a self-imposed limitation, namely that there can only be one authority. Both are equal. Isn't Christ as equal as the Father?
 
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