LDS Recording Angels

Dale · Dec 23, 2019

"From the fact that records are kept in heaven (such as the Book of Life), we deduce that there must necessarily be recording angels; that is, some ministering servants must be assigned there to keep the records. Knowing what we do of the importance of record keeping, and knowing that our affairs in this life have been formulated in accordance with a heavenly pattern, we can suppose that many records are kept by those beyond the veil. This view, however, cannot rationally be extended (as it is among some sectarians) to the point of supposing that every word of mortals is recorded. No angel is assigned to follow every person around and keep a record of his every utterance. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 54.)"
Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, under Recording Angels, p. 440.

One is reminded of the Islamic belief in recording angels. According to Mohammed, everyone has two angels following them around, one recording good deeds and the other recording bad deeds. Even though McConkie denies that every word is recorded, we can only wonder if Joseph Smith was influenced by the Islamic view.

A greater problem for Christians is that McConkie's claim that no angel records "every utterance" contradicts Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew.

36 [Jesus says, ] "But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” --Matthew 12: 36-37 NIV

Jesus does tell us that every word is known and remembered by God. He says nothing about recording angels being necessary to this process.

Bob Carabbio · Dec 23, 2019

Dale said:
"From the fact that records are kept in heaven (such as the Book of Life), we deduce that there must necessarily be recording angels;

It's more likely in MY OPINION that since time works differently on God's side of reality, recording is essentially unnecessary since All that God has to do is roll back time, and simply WATCH what wen't on.

Joseph Smith, in all likelyhood, was the deceived recipient of a satanic phantasm, that led him into his religious fantasy.

Ironhold · Dec 23, 2019

Do you know which edition of "Mormon Doctrine" that came from?

The original edition was a personal project that had no official sanction or oversight, and so was more McConkie's on beliefs than official church teachings.

Newer versions have been through multiple revisions and so are closer in line to church theology, but critics *love* to go for the oldest edition they can find so as to pluck the most questionable statements they can find.

Thus, if someone cites Mormon Doctrine without adding the edition, it's regarded as being at best an outdated citation, if not one that has been doctored.

Dale · Dec 23, 2019

Ironhold said:
Do you know which edition of "Mormon Doctrine" that came from?

The original edition was a personal project that had no official sanction or oversight, and so was more McConkie's on beliefs than official church teachings.

Newer versions have been through multiple revisions and so are closer in line to church theology, but critics *love* to go for the oldest edition they can find so as to pluck the most questionable statements they can find.

Thus, if someone cites Mormon Doctrine without adding the edition, it's regarded as being at best an outdated citation, if not one that has been doctored.

Here is the Title Page.

Ironhold · Dec 23, 2019

Dale said:
Here is the Title Page.

View attachment 268958

Yeah...

The '66 edition is IIRC the very first edition after McConkie was forced to try and clean the work up.

Some members of the church will accept citations from it, but others won't.

Of the Kingdom · Dec 23, 2019

I notice this came from "Doctrines of Salvation", presumably the book by Joseph F. Smith. It is available from the Internet Archive, so we can check whether McConkie's book quoted him accurately.

How is Smith's book (I stand corrected. Not Smith's book, but Smith's writings as compiled by McConkie; not Mormon Doctrine, but an earlier book, presumably qouted in Mormon Doctrine) regarded? Is it considered reliable or unreliable?

Edit: I need to investigate further. The quote in the OP suggests that one McConkie book quoted another. So far I didn't find the quoted material in the IA version of the earlier book.

Edit: OK, I found almost the sentence, "No angel is assigned to follow every person around and keep a record of his every utterance."

Essentially the same statement, but using the word "stenographer", is in the D. of Sal. book, at p 35 of that book. There are two numbers after it, 54 and 47. I don't know how to cite these properly, and presumably I should follow the reference to the actual Smith writing.

He is the way · Dec 23, 2019

Dale said:
Here is the Title Page.

View attachment 268958

That was an old edition, Bruce R. McConkie was not made an apostle until 1972. The last edition of Mormon Doctrine was Published in 1979.

Ironhold · Dec 23, 2019

He is the way said:
That was an old edition, Bruce R. McConkie was not made an apostle until 1972. The last edition of Mormon Doctrine was Published in 1979.

A new edition of the book, with posthumous revisions, came out circa 1994.

Basically, 1994+ is what most members of the church will have handy these days, and so is the best reference to go off of.

Dale · Dec 24, 2019

You guys seem to be backing away from what McConkie said about Recording Angels. So is there a place for Recording Angels or not?

He is the way · Dec 24, 2019

The Doctrines Of Salvation Was compiled by Bruce R. McConkie and published in 1954. The text mentioned has a footnote which is Pers. Corresp. I would say that not every word by every general authority constitutes official doctrine.

Rescued One · Dec 28, 2019

Of the Kingdom said:
I notice this came from "Doctrines of Salvation", presumably the book by Joseph F. Smith. It is available from the Internet Archive, so we can check whether McConkie's book quoted him accurately.

How is Smith's book (I stand corrected. Not Smith's book, but Smith's writings as compiled by McConkie; not Mormon Doctrine, but an earlier book, presumably qouted in Mormon Doctrine) regarded? Is it considered reliable or unreliable?

Edit: I need to investigate further. The quote in the OP suggests that one McConkie book quoted another. So far I didn't find the quoted material in the IA version of the earlier book.

Edit: OK, I found almost the sentence, "No angel is assigned to follow every person around and keep a record of his every utterance."

Essentially the same statement, but using the word "stenographer", is in the D. of Sal. book, at p 35 of that book. There are two numbers after it, 54 and 47. I don't know how to cite these properly, and presumably I should follow the reference to the actual Smith writing.

Are you aware that Joseph Smith, Jr. was the founder, while Joseph F. Smith, and Joseph Fielding Smith were later prophets?

Rescued One · Dec 28, 2019

Dale said:
You guys seem to be backing away from what McConkie said about Recording Angels. So is there a place for Recording Angels or not?

What do you mean by "a place?"

Dale · Dec 28, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
What do you mean by "a place?"

I'm asking the Mormons on this thread whether they believe in Recording Angels.

Rescued One · Dec 28, 2019

I've never found an error in the quotes as quoted in Mormon Doctrine.

"From the fact that records are kept in heaven (such as the Book of Life), we deduce that there must necessarily be recording angels; that is some ministering servants must be assigned there to keep the records."
Mormon Doctrine, 1979, p. 620

Is the original question whether or not we are assigned guardian angels? In Mormonism everyone has the light of Christ, and the Holy Ghost is said to guide worthy (obedient) LDS.

Does this help answer your questions? I'm a s-l-o-w typist.

Rescued One · Dec 28, 2019

Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 54, gives more clarification.

"There is no angel following us about like a stenographer taking notes and making a record of our lives. The Lord has a more perfect way by which the acts of our lives are recorded."

Rescued One · Dec 29, 2019

I have both the 1966 and the 1979 editions of Mormon Doctrine.

Dale · Dec 29, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
I have both the 1966 and the 1979 editions of Mormon Doctrine.

Thanks, that is helpful.

mmksparbud · Dec 29, 2019

It is so hard to know what they believe---they constantly "reword" their believes to make them sound more in tune to Christianity. I doubt JS would even know it is the same religion he taught, except for the core stuff like the Father having a father and so on. The seldom mentioned things. The more often spoken of things are all becoming Christianized in language. Their "prophets" constantly contradict the word of God. As has been pointed out, Jesus said
Mat_12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

I'll take His word over the word of any of their "prophets."

Of the Kingdom · Dec 29, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
I have both the 1966 and the 1979 editions of Mormon Doctrine.

Dale began the thread with a quote from,

Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, under Recording Angels, p. 440.

Can you verify how similar the 1979 version of this is to the 1966 version?

So far the thread has been derailed into an attempt to find out who said what when. If the two differ dramatically, the answer to the original question is "it depends"; if they are similar perhaps someone can actually address the point.

Rescued One · Dec 29, 2019

The 1966 quote was already posted. I posted the paperback 1979, p. 620, quote.

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