Rapture question

pressingon17 · Sep 15, 2009

Look at verse 6,it says that those who are in the first ressurection don't have to worry about the second death,(hell) because they are saved.

I've heard before that the Bible wasn't written chapter verse but as one big book,and look at verse 4,the last sentence seems to have a good ending.I think verse 5 is a whole different section about a different topic.But that's just me.
oh I remember reading that those who are christians and killed for there faith before the rapture and during the tribulation that they are sitting at the throne of God waiting for the rest of the saints who will be killed?I think I'll find the verse.
The verse's is Rev.6:9-11
I think Rev. 20:5 is refuring to them since the number of Christians who will be killed can't be acounted for till the end of the Tribulation.Just my thoughts on this.

catzrfluffy · Sep 15, 2009

So all the martyrs will be resurrected in the first resurrection. Just the one's who are beheaded, or do other methods of martyrdom count?
One important question I can't figure out:
Is the 'coming of the Lord' which the Bible mentions a lot described in the bit about the rider on the white horse whose name is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS in the second half of Rev.19, or is the 'coming of the Lord' something different?
Will anyone ever understand Revelation? This side of death?

(ar look i've made them synchronized!)

liesje · Sep 16, 2009

pressingon17 said:
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.1 Corinthians 15:51-52
And 1 Thessalonians 4 13-18 look it up good stuff.
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.1 Thessalonians 5:9-10

God hasn't destined us for wrath hell or the Tribulation.So He will take us up in a twinkling of a eye and we shall be changed.

PM me if you have any questions and I'll try to answer them best as possible with the Bible as my guide.

Can you please explain to me what either of these verses have to do with the tribulation? It doesn't actually say anywhere in the Bible that there will be a rapture.

pressingon17 · Sep 16, 2009

liesje said:
Can you please explain to me what either of these verses have to do with the tribulation? It doesn't actually say anywhere in the Bible that there will be a rapture.

Well,think about it,not all will sleep,(die)but will be changed in a twinkling of a eye.Boom,blink your eye and your in Heaven and in a inmortal soul.BOOM!!!!lol your gone never died by worlds standards and just gone to be with Jesus.Never DIED!!!!Just think your in school and boom your standing next to God and Jesus.

liesje · Sep 16, 2009

pressingon17 said:
Well,think about it,not all will sleep,(die)but will be changed in a twinkling of a eye.Boom,blink your eye and your in Heaven and in a inmortal soul.BOOM!!!!lol your gone never died by worlds standards and just gone to be with Jesus.Never DIED!!!!Just think your in school and boom your standing next to God and Jesus.

I've always understood "Not all will sleep" as meaning that there will be some people Christians who are still alive when Christ returns. And changed in the twinkling of an eye, again, when Christ returns we'll be changed from earthly, frail, sinful, mortal beings into immortal heavenly beings. I'm still not sure how that connects with the tribulation/rapture

Destiny2009 · Sep 19, 2009

Liyasa said:
so, I always thought that God called all true followers of Him in the rapture. but mom was talking a few days ago about how some people believe that God has the people of strongest faith stay behind to help everyone else. I'm not sure which one seems right, they kinda both do. what do you guys think?

They both do I will be honest. But I have heard that belief before. Quite a few times but the thing is I haven't read anything in the bible that states that. Not saying that it's not in there it's just I have never came across it. Far as I know those who have passed away will be taken first and those who are alive(naturally) that follow Christ will meet up with them in the sky ( I know I pulled it from a verse but can't remember which one). There will be people left on the way there will be alot of people many/quite many will know all about God alot of them will be some of the people that have went to church all their life and people that have. There will be pastors, church members and all down here. Not because they were of Great faith but because they knew the way but didn't live it. Or they were a "good" person but not saved. Alot of people know they way, live the way but aren't truly saved. Not everyone who goes to church is saved, people can have saved christian beliefs but not be saved.

judechild · Sep 20, 2009

pressingon17 said:
Well,think about it,not all will sleep,(die)but will be changed in a twinkling of a eye.Boom,blink your eye and your in Heaven and in a inmortal soul.BOOM!!!!lol your gone never died by worlds standards and just gone to be with Jesus.Never DIED!!!!Just think your in school and boom your standing next to God and Jesus.

Yes, but that does not pre-suppose a belief that God will for some reason protect Christians alive at the end of time from facing persecution. What makes us so special that we get protected, when the Early Church martyrs, and those living under communism, and ones in the Holy Land, and those in totalitarian countries throughout history, and the Apostles, and Jesus Himself were not? Martyrdom is the highest form of Spirituality, not something to run from, or hope to be delivered from. "The servant is no greater than the master". And we'd best get used to the notion of "perservering to the end".

pressingon17 · Sep 21, 2009

Well,it doesn't really make sense to keep going on and on about the rapture and end times.We all have different idea's on what's going to happen,as long as we are all in agreement in the basic truths nothing else matters.

judechild · Sep 21, 2009

pressingon17 said:
as long as we are all in agreement in the basic truths nothing else matters.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this. What are the "basic truths"?

itisdeliciouscake · Sep 21, 2009

I'm not quite sure I even believe in the rapture.

either way, it doesn't really matter. just focus on your walk with God.

itisdeliciouscake · Sep 21, 2009

judechild said:
I'm sorry, I don't understand this. What are the "basic truths"?

the substitutionary atonement, the deity of Christ, the Bible, the fact that Christ will return.

catzrfluffy · Sep 21, 2009

i can't see the rapture in the bible either, i could see how someone could but every time it's just the resurrection.
does this verse help with defining 'basic truths'?:
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." (Heb. 6:1-2)
this smiley is so cool -

judechild · Sep 21, 2009

itisdeliciouscake said:
the substitutionary atonement, the deity of Christ, the Bible, the fact that Christ will return.

Not to sound rude, but says who?

What about these make them so much more important than, say, Christ's dual nature? Or His Virgin birth? Or...

judechild · Sep 21, 2009

catzrfluffy said:
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." (Heb. 6:1-2)

This is different than our friend-who-loves-good-cake's list...

this smiley is so cool -

I agree.

catzrfluffy · Sep 21, 2009

Just spotted it but curious:
what does "Death but not Sin!" - St. Dominic Savio mean?
(aw budgie -

)

judechild · Sep 21, 2009

catzrfluffy said:
Just spotted it but curious:
what does "Death but not Sin!" - St. Dominic Savio mean?

It's a quote. St. Dominic Savio said he'd rather take "death but not sin."

Martin Raccon · Nov 25, 2009

I'm not sure who will be, but I'm sure it's after the tribullation.
In Chorinthans (look throught it all dunno where) Paul tells us the rapture will be at the sound of the seventh trumpet.
I'm Revelation 11 we read about two witnesses. They are killed.
After that, even those witnesses (see how mighty they were) are revived and a voice calls them to heaven, so they ascend up and a cloud hides them. After that, the seventh trumpet sounds. what was this? The rapture! so might happen to the others who followed the only true god.
And this was after the tribullation >_> so.... kinda all christians will pass through the Tribullation

(no, I dunt use spellcheck)

RobertMerton · Jan 21, 2010

sorry guys,
there won't be a 'secret rapture' where all the true christians are saved like noah in the flood.

we christians WILL have to go through the tribulation.

powermadd400ex · Jan 21, 2010

agreed ck_psy. Rapture of that nature is not supported by the bible, imo.

seekerfortruth · Feb 22, 2010

liesje said:
Amellinialists believe Revelation is symbolic, kind of like a picture book. So we see the thousand years as a picture for a long period of time, ie, the period we're living in now, and that the 7 years is also symbolic, so we don't believe in a secret rapture, but we believe that Jesus second coming will be visible, and Christians and non Christians alike will be alive on the earth, and once Jesus has come and taken us to be with him in heaven, that is the end of the earth.

So basically, you don't ready any of revelation litterally?

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