Questions to the atheists

copticorthodoxy · Jun 4, 2006

the most fact in this world is the death , all the humans will die , there is no exception
what the atheists thoughts about death ? do you fear from death ? what you feel when you see any of your close friends or relatives died ? what is your hope about the eternal life ?? What if God exists !!

Danhalen · Jun 4, 2006

copticorthodoxy said:
what the atheists thoughts about death ?

It is an inescapable turn of events.

do you fear from death ?

I do not fear death for myself. I worry about the death of those I love.

what you feel when you see any of your close friends or relatives died ?

I feel saddened by our loss when one of us dies.

what is your hope about the eternal life ??

I have no hope for eternal life. I think it is a false hope.

What if God exists !!

Then I'm wrong.

copticorthodoxy · Jun 4, 2006

Danhalen said:
I do not fear death for myself. I worry about the death of those I love.

I have no hope for eternal life. I think it is a false hope.

why you worry about the death of those you love ?? if you have a hope of the eternal life you will not worry about them ...

there is an old story from the Coptic ( Egyptian )Orthodox Christian traditions . it is a story about a monk and atheist , once an atheist saw a christian monk living a poor life , spend his time in praying and fasting and help others . the atheist told him " you are wasting your life in this things and at the end there is no God to repay all that for you , go and enjoy your life " ... the monk answered him i am enjoying my spirtual life like this and if there is no God i will not lose anything , but tell me what you will do if after your death you discovered that there is a God !!

Danhalen · Jun 4, 2006

copticorthodoxy said:
why you worry about the death of those you love ??

I do not want to lose them.

if you have a hope of the eternal life you will not worry about them ...

If life is eternal, I will still lose them in this life. Why should I have hope for things which have no evidence of possibility?

ApocryphaNow · Jun 4, 2006

Life would mean nothing without death.

DeepThinker · Jun 4, 2006

ApocryphaNow said:
Life would mean nothing without death.

Thats a LIE, if we didnt have death, life would mean we would get very bored

Parkspapercut · Jun 4, 2006

There are certain views atheists can take, it's all based on personal opinion.

The three greatest that come to my mind are
Dualism, Idealism and Materlialsm, most atheists choosing the latter.

Personally I try not to think about death as it can generate negative feelings about myself and those close to me, my opinion is that once we die we are brought back around losing all the memories we have previously gained. And if I'm wrong I can only hope God is loving enough to accept me for my mistakes if he is truely benevolent.

Danhalen · Jun 4, 2006

ApocryphaNow said:
Life would mean nothing without death.

I'm curious, in what way do you mean this? Certainly life could concievably mean something if there were no death.

DeepThinker · Jun 4, 2006

Parkspapercut said:
There are certain views atheists can take, it's all based on personal opinion.

The three greatest that come to my mind are
Dualism, Idealism and Materlialsm, most atheists choosing the latter.

Personally I try not to think about death as it can generate negative feelings about myself and those close to me, my opinion is that once we die we are brought back around losing all the memories we have previously gained. And if I'm wrong I can only hope God is loving enough to accept me for my mistakes if he is truely benevolent.

I used to have a very similar view, I'm not going to tell you to become a christian or anything like that so dont worry, its still my veiw that if there is a God hes not going to damn people forever who did not belive exactly what he wanted us to, (he would be a bit of a harsh God so I am hoping this is not the case at least). Many Christians would disagree with me here though.

Danhalen · Jun 4, 2006

Parkspapercut said:
There are certain views atheists can take, it's all based on personal opinion.

I disagree. There are no particular views an atheist is limited too beyond the disbelief in deities.

The three greatest that come to my mind are
Dualism, Idealism and Materlialsm, most atheists choosing the latter.

I think you've left out the second most appealing opinion to atheists: neutral monism.

Personally I try not to think about death as it can generate negative feelings about myself and those close to me, my opinion is that once we die we are brought back around losing all the memories we have previously gained.

I am curious as to why you believe this. Is it merely wishful thinking?

Parkspapercut · Jun 4, 2006

Danhalen said:
I disagree. There are no particular views an atheist is limited too beyond the disbelief in deities.

I think you've left out the second most appealing opinion to atheists: neutral monism.

I am curious as to why you believe this. Is it merely wishful thinking?

Hmm, I accept what you are saying about the only view we can carry is there being no Gods in that respect, however the afterlife is a different matter with varying opinions.
If I have left out some of the more obvious, I apoligise, I'm pretty new to these debates and not far along in my study of the subject.

As for you third point, yes it is wishful thinking. I've heard beleivers talk of God as being forgiving and all loving, so that is where my comment comes from. Also, I have not been an atheist all my life, as I was raised I regularly went to church services etc etc

Danhalen · Jun 4, 2006

Parkspapercut said:
Hmm, I accept what you are saying about the only view we can carry is there being no Gods in that respect, however the afterlife is a different matter with varying opinions.

I agree with you 100% on this. There is no telling how an atheist might feel concerning a supposed afterlife. I think it is a fair assumption to say most atheists do not believe in it, but to say all atheists do not believe in it is simply wrong.

If I have left out some of the more obvious, I apoligise, I'm pretty new to these debates and not far along in my study of the subject.

No need to apologise. You typed how you feel. I can ask no more from you. I think you'll do just fine as you continue in these debates so long as you remain being honest.

As for you third point, yes it is wishful thinking. I've heard beleivers talk of God as being forgiving and all loving, so that is where my comment comes from. Also, I have not been an atheist all my life, as I was raised I regularly went to church services etc etc

This is exactly the type of honesty I am speaking of. You realise your beliefs are merely that--wishful thinking. There is no problem with holding a belief out of the desire to do so, so long as you do not try to justify it with logic.

By the way, nice to meet you. Welcome to the forums.

In Reason,
Dan

Parkspapercut · Jun 4, 2006

Nice to meet you also =]

I remain honest because if you argue on something you don't know or with lies then you back yourself in a corner and make a fool of yourself.

ApocryphaNow · Jun 4, 2006

Danhalen said:
I'm curious, in what way do you mean this? Certainly life could concievably mean something if there were no death.

I've been thinking of "eternity" a lot lately, and this is the conclusion I have reached (at least for the moment).

I suppose there are several ways to look at this, so perhaps I will start with a simple "frame of reference" argument. In a world without death, we lose the perspective of not living. The way I look at it now, one defines one's life based on the period of time they lived and what they did while alive; therefore the meaning of death and the meaning of life are inexplicably tied. If you never die, none of this matters, not anything you do, or say, or think. There is no effect on your life or anybody else's life because each of our "lifespans" stretches on for "eternity"; by which I do not mean a "very long time" but, literally, forever. That's a hard thing to think about, really. Anything that happens... for now matter how long a period of "time", is just a drop in the bucket... even less than that... less than the lowliest quark in the bucket.

With eternity, temporality doesn't really matter that much, but I'm sure we are all still stuck in that frame of mind, given that we are mortal. Imagine, however, a cataclysmic war in which nobody died. Who cares? Similarly, what is the point in charity if nobody needs anything? Even the severest torture -- again, for no mater how long -- does not matter because, on this scale of things, it takes such an infinitesimally small "chunk" of "time" that it may as well have not even happened. The "greatest good" and the "greatest evil" would both be impotent to touch eternity.

copticorthodoxy · Jun 4, 2006

any one may die at any time , all of us should think about the death

Danhalen · Jun 4, 2006

ApocryphaNow said:
With eternity, temporality doesn't really matter that much, but I'm sure we are all still stuck in that frame of mind, given that we are mortal. Imagine, however, a cataclysmic war in which nobody died. Who cares? Similarly, what is the point in charity if nobody needs anything? Even the severest torture -- again, for no mater how long -- does not matter because, on this scale of things, it takes such an infinitesimally small "chunk" of "time" that it may as well have not even happened. The "greatest good" and the "greatest evil" would both be impotent to touch eternity.

Does this preclude the desire to live in bliss? Could it be that an eternal life could be spent searching for eternal bliss? Could this search be the meaning (or perhaps any other state of existence)?

ApocryphaNow · Jun 4, 2006

Danhalen said:
Does this preclude the desire to live in bliss? Could it be that an eternal life could be spent searching for eternal bliss? Could this search be the meaning (or perhaps any other state of existence)?

I am not sure if I know what eternal bliss is, but I can think of two conditions for this. First, I could assume that eternal bliss exists, in which case it will be found instananeously (on this scale) and last infinitely. This begs the question: what would be the difference between any two blissful days... and would it matter?

The second is that eternal bliss does not exist. In this case, the search itself would be the supposed gain. Here we have the paradox of the impossible task over an unlimited amount of time that is so familiar to Greek religion/philosophy. Unfortunately, these things are more instructive for us, the mortal, than they are useful at solving the problem. In this sense, time may as well be "frozen" as "infinite."

Mortensen · Jun 4, 2006

A consoling though when you are about to die is that you can finaly know the truth. No more believing or faith. I cant wait

copticorthodoxy · Jun 4, 2006

Mortensen said:
A consoling though when you are about to die is that you can finaly know the truth. No more believing or faith. I cant wait

What if you are wrong and there is God and faith !!!

DeepThinker · Jun 4, 2006

copticorthodoxy said:
What if you are wrong and there is God and faith !!!

At least he will finally know the truth, unless there is nothing when we die in the way of an afterlife, in which case you would not know anything

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