Questions for Flat Earthers

rturner76 · Apr 30, 2017

Oldmantook said:
We were all taught that the earth is a globe which revolves around the sun - ever since Copernicus postulated his heliocentric model. Prior to that, people believed that the earth was the center of the universe and the sun, stars and planets revolved around it. It may surprise you to know that there is a debate in the scientific community questioning the Copernican Principle.
Though not necessarily directly related, there are those including myself who question that the earth is round. I don't believe the scriptures teach a globed earth. As with anything, do your own research and come to your own conclusions.
For starter:

This is fascinating. There is a debate within the scientific community or is it that there is a particular theistic community that debates the scientific community? In all the science classes I have taken and seen offered, I have never seen or heard of the flat Earth concept being considered a provable theory. Science from my understanding is the process of proving or disproving facts or information by way of repeatable experimentation. In short, if you can do something repeatedly it is proven.

I have never seen anyone prove the Earth is flat by traveling to the edge of it and taking a measurement like a photograph, video, or infrared image from the side looking out past the edge or from above, where the edge of the Earth can be seen. I have however seen photographs and video etc, of a spherical Earth, map. How has anyone accounted for never seeing the edge of the Earth. Surely if we are talking about science, someone would travel to the end of the Earth and record some kind of proof in order to prove their theory. That is the basis of science right? You don't just espouse a theory, you make a hypothesis, then prove the theory. It's the scientific method. Do you reject that method and thereby reject science or do you admit there is no proven theory of a flat Earth and still accept science? You mentioned a debate in the scientific community,however there is no debate WITHIN the scientific community. THere is a debate WITH the scientific community by people who believe a nonscientific (unproven) hypothesis and people who believe in a scientific (proven) theory.

Oldmantook · Apr 30, 2017

rturner76 said:
This is fascinating. There is a debate within the scientific community or is it that there is a particular theistic community that debates the scientific community? In all the science classes I have taken and seen offered, I have never seen or heard of the flat Earth concept being considered a provable theory. Science from my understanding is the process of proving or disproving facts or information by way of repeatable experimentation. In short, if you can do something repeatedly it is proven.

I have never seen anyone prove the Earth is flat by traveling to the edge of it and taking a measurement like a photograph, video, or infrared image from the side looking out past the edge or from above, where the edge of the Earth can be seen. I have however seen photographs and video etc, of a spherical Earth, map. How has anyone accounted for never seeing the edge of the Earth. Surely if we are talking about science, someone would travel to the end of the Earth and record some kind of proof in order to prove their theory. That is the basis of science right? You don't just espouse a theory, you make a hypothesis, then prove the theory. It's the scientific method. Do you reject that method and thereby reject science or do you admit there is no proven theory of a flat Earth and still accept science? You mentioned a debate in the scientific community,however there is no debate WITHIN the scientific community. There is a debate WITH the scientific community by people who believe a nonscientific (unproven) hypothesis and people who believe in a scientific (proven) theory.

Of course science has its place in society but it is by no means the measure of all things as it has its limitations. As a Christian, do you subscribe to the evolution theory or did God create humankind? Do you believe in Jesus' resurrection which is not subject to the scientific method of repeatable empirical verification? My point simply is we were taught subjects in school (controlled by humanists) which may or may not be true and even contradictory to Scripture. We acquire a normalcy bias that causes us to naturally protect and keep intact our long-held beliefs. We don't stop to question what we've been taught and if we encounter something that contradicts our paradigm it creates cognitive dissonance which prevents us from investigating further. If you wish you can certainly do your own research on the subject as there is no dearth of material on the subject which will either solidify your held belief or cause it to come into question.

bhsmte · Apr 30, 2017

frienden thalord said:
Just wanted to let all know the bible is absolute truth.
and to also encourage some to read it.

I have read it and reached a different conclusion than you.

bhsmte · Apr 30, 2017

USincognito said:
Unfortunately flat earth has become fashionable again, especially among certain segments of the population (especially here in the U.S.).

I would call it more entertaining, than unfortunate.

lesliedellow · Apr 30, 2017

bhsmte said:
I would call it more entertaining, than unfortunate.

Us Europeans don't need much excuse to feel superior to Americans.

bhsmte · Apr 30, 2017

lesliedellow said:
Us Europeans don't need much excuse to feel superior to Americans.

When it comes to this topic, you would be correct.

dad · Apr 30, 2017

USincognito said:
Edited to add that this is not my list. I got it from some guy on Facebook, but the thread got deleted so I can't see it, and I can't remember his name to credit him.

1. Please explain how a flight from Sydney to Santiago (7000 miles) in 12:45 min can happen on the FE model. On the FE map, Sydney to Santiago is a 20,500 mile trip. First there is not one commercial plane that can fly nonstop 20,500. Second, to do the trip in 12 hours 45 minutes the plane would be traveling over 1,600 mph.

2. Please explain how a person in Santiago at 11 pm and a person in Cape Town at 4am (Same exact time just 2 different time zones) can both look due south and see the same pole star (Sigma Octantis), On the FE map South for Santiago is about 90 degrees different than South for Cape Town. You cannot see the same star at the same time looking due south as due south is at right angles for these countries on an FE model.

3. Why is the earth shadow on a lunar eclipse a curve? How does the earth even cast a shadow on the moon if the moon is above us on the dome?

4. Why does the sun and moon not follow the laws of parallax? Both rise and set and travel through the sky without changing size. According to parallax, as they move away from us they should be shrinking. This is not observed. They rise and set, they do not expand and shrink as parallax would predict.

5. Why when you climb a tower, the higher you go the further you can see? FE says that we can only see as far as the vanishing point. How does the vanishing point change based on how high you are?

6. Why do all the surveyors using Geodesy say the earth is curved? Are they in also in conspiracy with NASA and the Government as well?

7. Why is the moon inverted in the southern hemisphere vs the northern hemisphere?

8. How does the sun work like a spotlight? Light streams out in all directions. The sun is not directional in how it spreads light. If the sun is above us and does not set no matter where on the FE you are you should be able to see it. Light does not have a limit on travel.

9. If both the sun and moon are above us on the dome, how do we explain a lunar eclipse? Would not the earth have to be between the sun and the moon for the earth to cast a shadow?

10. How do stars rotate around the southern pole star? (Sigma Octantis)

11. Find a webcam from Antarctica and watch how have the part of the year it is in total darkness for days. Explain how this works on an FE model when Antacrtica surrounds the earth.

Looks like the modern so called science folks have one upped the foolishness of the non bible believing flat earthers.

The Universe Is Flat — Now What?

dad · Apr 30, 2017

lesliedellow said:
Us Europeans don't need much excuse to feel superior to Americans.

No. They are self righteous naturally.

lesliedellow · Apr 30, 2017

dad said:
No. They are self righteous naturally.

They don't necessarily feel morally superior, but they do think they left behind the nineteenth century (6,000 year old Earth), the sixteenth century (geocentrism) and 200BC (flat Earth) long ago.

dad · Apr 30, 2017

lesliedellow said:
They don't necessarily feel morally superior, but they do think they left behind the nineteenth century (6,000 year old Earth), the sixteenth century (geocentrism) and 200BC (flat Earth) long ago.

Yeah right. Their holier than thou attitude smells more than blue cheese.

lesliedellow · Apr 30, 2017

dad said:
Yeah right. Their holier than thou attitude smells more than blue cheese.

A lot smarter than thou would be more accurate.

rturner76 · Apr 30, 2017

Oldmantook said:
Of course science has its place in society but it is by no means the measure of all things as it has its limitations. As a Christian, do you subscribe to the evolution theory or did God create humankind? Do you believe in Jesus' resurrection which is not subject to the scientific method of repeatable empirical verification? My point simply is we were taught subjects in school (controlled by humanists) which may or may not be true and even contradictory to Scripture. We acquire a normalcy bias that causes us to naturally protect and keep intact our long-held beliefs. We don't stop to question what we've been taught and if we encounter something that contradicts our paradigm it creates cognitive dissonance which prevents us from investigating further. If you wish you can certainly do your own research on the subject as there is no dearth of material on the subject which will either solidify your held belief or cause it to come into question.

That's interesting that you bring up the Bible and ask what I believe. I do believe God created everything but I believe he did it through evolution mostly because there is more evidence of evolution through the study of species and fossils. Once again, we have a testable hypothesis that can be proven or disproven.

When we are talking about things like the resurrection, first let me say I do believe that happened. However, that is what is known as FAITH, faith is when you believe in something that can't be proven or may go against conventional logic. We don't need facts to believe things we take on faith, faith doesn't require any proof. Science does.

That's where I think the disconnect is. Flat People, and other philosophies I won't mention, seem to take things that are matters of faith, and believe them as if the are proven facts. At the same time Flat Earth people take things that are matters of fact (which are provable) and treat them as matters of faith.

It is fine to believe things based on faith, there is nothing wring with that. However those this are not provable facts.

You said:
"science has its place in society but it is by no means the measure of all things"
It kind of is the measure of all things factual. It just is not the measure of faith.

Now that you have questioned the status quo and done your own research, would you like to share your proof that the Earth is flat. I mean something that can discredit satellite imagery or nautical circumnavigation of the globe?

Do you believe that Magellan's expedition did not circumnavigate the globe or the guys who sail the vendee globe race around the world every year in their yachts is in fact a hoax?

If I could make one request....Would it be possible for you to answer any of my questions? I'm really curious to hear your thoughts. If you could answer this last one it would tell me a lot. Like I asked before, people sailing around the world, are they a part of a conspiracy? Are the companies that offer satellite imagery a part of a conspiracy? If so, what would be their motivation? What could someone gain from promoting a spherical Earth and keeping a flat one secret for the past 500 years? Wouldn't someone have blown the whistle on this conspiracy by now if there is one? I would really like to know your thoughts on these matters, I'm not trying to grill you.

Armoured · Apr 30, 2017

frienden thalord said:
It is just as I assumed.
the attack might be against more than just conspiracy .
A circle on paper is flat due to its one dimensional.
but when describing a plant as a circle.............it means sphere too.
I have found when some, but not all, are shown proof in the bible.
they wont take it, because its in THE BIBLE.
anyway.................I am out . my cast rests solid.

When describing a plant as a circle its a sphere?

Ok...?

dad · Apr 30, 2017

lesliedellow said:
A lot smarter than thou would be more accurate.

Holier than thou would include them thinking they were smartie pants too.

Oldmantook · Apr 30, 2017

rturner76 said:
That's interesting that you bring up the Bible and ask what I believe. I do believe God created everything but I believe he did it through evolution mostly because there is more evidence of evolution through the study of species and fossils. Once again, we have a testable hypothesis that can be proven or disproven.

When we are talking about things like the resurrection, first let me say I do believe that happened. However, that is what is known as FAITH, faith is when you believe in something that can't be proven or may go against conventional logic. We don't need facts to believe things we take on faith, faith doesn't require any proof. Science does.

That's where I think the disconnect is. Flat People, and other philosophies I won't mention, seem to take things that are matters of faith, and believe them as if the are proven facts. At the same time Flat Earth people take things that are matters of fact (which are provable) and treat them as matters of faith.

It is fine to believe things based on faith, there is nothing wring with that. However those this are not provable facts.

You said:
"science has its place in society but it is by no means the measure of all things"
It kind of is the measure of all things factual. It just is not the measure of faith.

Now that you have questioned the status quo and done your own research, would you like to share your proof that the Earth is flat. I mean something that can discredit satellite imagery or nautical circumnavigation of the globe?

Do you believe that Magellan's expedition did not circumnavigate the globe or the guys who sail the vendee globe race around the world every year in their yachts is in fact a hoax?

If I could make one request....Would it be possible for you to answer any of my questions? I'm really curious to hear your thoughts. If you could answer this last one it would tell me a lot. Like I asked before, people sailing around the world, are they a part of a conspiracy? Are the companies that offer satellite imagery a part of a conspiracy? If so, what would be their motivation? What could someone gain from promoting a spherical Earth and keeping a flat one secret for the past 500 years? Wouldn't someone have blown the whistle on this conspiracy by now if there is one? I would really like to know your thoughts on these matters, I'm not trying to grill you.

Oldmantook · May 1, 2017

You can grill me as it is good to ask questions, though I may not have the answers. If one accepts the scientific methodology employed as being reliable and valid then I have no problem accepting it as fact. However carbon dating is subject to carbon contamination from other organic sources in the environment thus making carbon dating results suspect. Same thing with evolution. I believe in micro-evolution but I don't believe in macro-evolution due to the absence of intermediate or transitional forms. We could debate this till the cows come home but you ask the pertinent question: "What could someone gain from promoting a spherical Earth and keeping a flat one secret for the past 500 years?"

That question goes to the heart of the matter so let's deal with that first. It is not just the flat earth but what exists above the earth. Gen 1:6-7 states that there is firmament above the earth. The flat earth model proposes that there is a dome above the earth which separates the waters above from the waters below. Is the "firmament" described in Genesis 1:6, heaven or a solid transparent dome? "The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork"(Ps 19:1). This verse references the heavens and the firmament as two separate things so since it is not heaven, can the firmament be descriptive of an actual dome? I know that sounds crazy but you can do your own research. Incidentally, Ps 19:1 verse just happens to be on Wernher Von Braun's tombstone. Coincidence? You may want to start your research with the Operation Fishbowl high altitude missile tests in 1962. The name is curious and lends itself to speculation as to what exists above the earth. Do we inhabit a "fishbowl" domed earth? The government has publically stated the reason for conducting such tests but were there ulterior motives not made public? For the sake of argument lets suppose the launching of these missiles exploded against a dome thus confirming the existence of such a thing. An impenetrable dome would make the moon landing a hoax of massive proportion, it would negate satellite technology and sending probes into space exploration a part of that deception. It is speculated that satellite GPS does not exist and radio signals are bounced off the dome to acquire location coordinates on the earth. If indeed so, why such elaborate and expensive deceptions to conceal the truth? My answer is that it all relates back to Matt 24:24 where it states that even the elect will be deceived. If we live on a domed earth, there can be no such thing as space travel and no aliens traveling in UFOs. Aliens are nothing more than demonic entities who will make their appearance in the last days to set up the coming deception. Belief in the "existence" of aliens would not have been possible today if mankind still believed in a fixed flat earth with a dome instead of a round earth revolving around the sun. That world view had to change and the change occurred a few hundred years ago. Ever wonder why the Catholic Church uses a telescope in Arizona with an instrument called Lucifer? So the answer to your question is that a conspiracy did indeed have to take place - a Luciferian one - where the biblical world view had to be supplanted by a scientific one centuries ago, in order to arrive at the notion today that mankind is not alone in this universe and we are being visited by visitors from other planets or galaxies. In order to be accepted and even welcomed by mankind, these demonic entities who travel interdimensionally know that they have to disguise themselves and pose as [benevolent] aliens who travel interstellary. Therein lies the deception as Satan who is the father of lies has spared no expense and effort in foisting and fostering this lie for the past few centuries in order to set up his end-time deception.
Ever wonder why Admiral Byrd who was tasked with exploring the South Pole (Operation High Jump) - again a peculiar name - has stated that "there exists an area as big as the United States that's never been seen by a human being, and that's beyond the pole on the other side of the South Pole from middle America." What? How can there be land beyond the South Pole on a global earth? It could be possible on a flat earth however where the South Pole is situated all along the perimeter edge of a circular earth with the North Pole occupying the center of a circular earth as flat earth maps depict. Either Byrd was out of his mind, not telling the truth, or accurately reporting the results of his expedition. Youtube has his interview, just search on it type in "more land beyond the antarctic proof." One must ask why is Antarctica protected air-space and except for guided tours generally off-limits to civilians?

As far as sailing around the world goes, in the past sailors had to sail around the Cape Horn to travel from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Now they can opt to travel through the Panama Canal. On a flat earth it makes no difference. On a flat earth, picture if you will the continents surround by the oceans. On a flat earth one still needs to circle the Cape Horn or travel through the Panama Canal as one sails east to west or west to east. The only difference is that one is not circumnavigating a globe but sailing in a circular route along the perimeter of a circular earth to travel around the continents.

Oldmantook · May 1, 2017

rturner76 said:
That's interesting that you bring up the Bible and ask what I believe. I do believe God created everything but I believe he did it through evolution mostly because there is more evidence of evolution through the study of species and fossils. Once again, we have a testable hypothesis that can be proven or disproven.

When we are talking about things like the resurrection, first let me say I do believe that happened. However, that is what is known as FAITH, faith is when you believe in something that can't be proven or may go against conventional logic. We don't need facts to believe things we take on faith, faith doesn't require any proof. Science does.

That's where I think the disconnect is. Flat People, and other philosophies I won't mention, seem to take things that are matters of faith, and believe them as if the are proven facts. At the same time Flat Earth people take things that are matters of fact (which are provable) and treat them as matters of faith.

It is fine to believe things based on faith, there is nothing wring with that. However those this are not provable facts.

You said:
"science has its place in society but it is by no means the measure of all things"
It kind of is the measure of all things factual. It just is not the measure of faith.

Now that you have questioned the status quo and done your own research, would you like to share your proof that the Earth is flat. I mean something that can discredit satellite imagery or nautical circumnavigation of the globe?

Do you believe that Magellan's expedition did not circumnavigate the globe or the guys who sail the vendee globe race around the world every year in their yachts is in fact a hoax?

If I could make one request....Would it be possible for you to answer any of my questions? I'm really curious to hear your thoughts. If you could answer this last one it would tell me a lot. Like I asked before, people sailing around the world, are they a part of a conspiracy? Are the companies that offer satellite imagery a part of a conspiracy? If so, what would be their motivation? What could someone gain from promoting a spherical Earth and keeping a flat one secret for the past 500 years? Wouldn't someone have blown the whistle on this conspiracy by now if there is one? I would really like to know your thoughts on these matters, I'm not trying to grill you.

Oldmantook · May 1, 2017

Sorry I neglected to link to your reply - see my responses to your questions in my reply above.

Astrophile · May 1, 2017

Oldmantook said:
You may want to rethink your argument. It certainly does say "circle" and by definition a circle is one-dimensional and FLAT.

A circle is two-dimensional; a line is one-dimensional.

Foxfyre · May 1, 2017

USincognito said:
Edited to add that this is not my list. I got it from some guy on Facebook, but the thread got deleted so I can't see it, and I can't remember his name to credit him.

1. Please explain how a flight from Sydney to Santiago (7000 miles) in 12:45 min can happen on the FE model. On the FE map, Sydney to Santiago is a 20,500 mile trip. First there is not one commercial plane that can fly nonstop 20,500. Second, to do the trip in 12 hours 45 minutes the plane would be traveling over 1,600 mph.

2. Please explain how a person in Santiago at 11 pm and a person in Cape Town at 4am (Same exact time just 2 different time zones) can both look due south and see the same pole star (Sigma Octantis), On the FE map South for Santiago is about 90 degrees different than South for Cape Town. You cannot see the same star at the same time looking due south as due south is at right angles for these countries on an FE model.

3. Why is the earth shadow on a lunar eclipse a curve? How does the earth even cast a shadow on the moon if the moon is above us on the dome?

4. Why does the sun and moon not follow the laws of parallax? Both rise and set and travel through the sky without changing size. According to parallax, as they move away from us they should be shrinking. This is not observed. They rise and set, they do not expand and shrink as parallax would predict.

5. Why when you climb a tower, the higher you go the further you can see? FE says that we can only see as far as the vanishing point. How does the vanishing point change based on how high you are?

6. Why do all the surveyors using Geodesy say the earth is curved? Are they in also in conspiracy with NASA and the Government as well?

7. Why is the moon inverted in the southern hemisphere vs the northern hemisphere?

8. How does the sun work like a spotlight? Light streams out in all directions. The sun is not directional in how it spreads light. If the sun is above us and does not set no matter where on the FE you are you should be able to see it. Light does not have a limit on travel.

9. If both the sun and moon are above us on the dome, how do we explain a lunar eclipse? Would not the earth have to be between the sun and the moon for the earth to cast a shadow?

10. How do stars rotate around the southern pole star? (Sigma Octantis)

11. Find a webcam from Antarctica and watch how have the part of the year it is in total darkness for days. Explain how this works on an FE model when Antacrtica surrounds the earth.

I think the problem is not the facts suggested in your questions. The problem comes on what the faith of the flat earthers is based. Most, maybe all, flat earthers are Biblical literalists who take literally the passages that most Bible scholars see as metaphorical or symbolic. And like all people fixed in their convictions, they don't allow themselves to think about how Isiah refers to "the four corners of the Earth" but also "the circle of the Earth" and how both cannot be taken literally.

Such people often believe the moonwalk never happened and deny other events in history that most of us do not question. But their faith is important to them and does not harm the rest of us so I don't work very hard to change their minds.

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