Questions & doubts over women in Scripture

You disagree with everyone else. That's fine. But I take the freedom to disagree with you. Several contributors have made valid points that cannot be simply ignored. You have made statements that don't necessarily mean what you believe they mean. That does not give you last speaking rights on the matters being raised.

John
NZ

To the OP: Perhaps you misunderstand the scriptures. Women are not oppressed in the New Testament. All Christians (men and women) are under authority. Christianity was radical in its ideas regarding everyone being equal in Christ. Here's the thing about the New Testament that people don't like to hear. The Church existed before the New Testament. The Tradition of the Church (of which scripture is an important part) is interpreted by the same Church. It makes no sense for those outside of that context to attempt to figure out what everything may or may not mean on their own. If you're listening to yourself or anyone or anything outside of the Tradition of the Church, then you can't be sure at all that you're getting the appropriate gist of the scriptures. The purpose of the New Testament is to proclaim Christ who is our salvation.

That said, many righteous women are mentioned in scripture. When one is talking about women in church as mentioned in the scriptures, it simply means that women can't be priests and administer the sacraments and disrupt liturgy and give sermons during liturgy to the faithful. Even most men aren't priests and don't administer the sacraments- are they oppressed? Women could do pretty much anything outside of the liturgy to spread the faith, same as men. Many women mentioned in the New Testament are recognized by the Orthodox Church as saints who were missionaries, who spread the gospel, who were martyrs, and who we call 'Equal to the Apostles.' We also honor the Theotokos and she is considered the greatest example for all Christians to follow.

Thank you for any kind of insight you can provide. And while I welcome feedback & thoughts from both sexes, I'm particularly interested in how women view these things in the Bible. How do you interpret Scripture on this? Are you silent in church? Do you willingly put yourself under the authority of the men in your life?

Click to expand...

I go to a church where women can't be ordained. This means that only men can be priests who administer sacraments. I don't feel oppressed in the least. Most men can't be priests either. Yet, we all still participate during the liturgy. We partake of the holy mystery of communion. Priests are icons of Christ to their flock. Christians are icons of Christ to all they meet. Women sing, chant, bake prosphora, and are expected to provide a witness of faith to others. Women can be missionaries. Some women are called to be monastics. Some women write books, teach church school, and have special blessings from their priests and bishops to give theological talks on different topics to others. We are all called to be a light to the world, feed the hungry, visit the sick, pray for others, etc. Actually, outside of the priesthood, there's nothing that separates what men and women are allowed to do when it comes to living a life in Christ.

I don't see it that way.

Gentile attitudes toward women were pretty severely beyond Christian positions. Eastern views of women did have some points of departure as well, but the idea that they were established by Scripture as oppressive to women doesn't seem to be the issue. There were cultural treatments of women that were oppressive in all cases. Christian teaching was often way freer than it appears.

1 Corinthians 14 doesn't actually refer to any OT law when it tells women (Gentile women) to keep silence in ekklesia ("gatherings" -- trans. "churches"). But there was indeed a Roman law stating such. The fact is, Paul is pointing out this talk isn't simply disruptive: it is damaging the church's reputation as a confusing, disordered mass of people. And that's something that will draw the Empire's attention as a risk of rioting.

All woman have a place in society and can be equal to men, it's just saying that it could be a bad idea for woman to be greater than men, it's better to have everything balanced you know.

I dont know much about this but arent we the cursed gender when Eve ate of the fruit in the garden?

Zippety said:

I dont know much about this but arent we the cursed gender when Eve ate of the fruit in the garden?

Click to expand...

No way.

John
NZ

Zippety said:

I dont know much about this but arent we the cursed gender when Eve ate of the fruit in the garden?

Click to expand...

Adam was cursed too, since he ate it too. Arguably, it was worse when he ate it, since he was not deceived by the serpent, yet he did it anyway.

Yes, but Jesus has provided a salvation that redeems us from all of that. Humanity has been given a new start through Jesus.

John
NZ

1 Corinthians 14 doesn't actually refer to any OT law when it tells women (Gentile women) to keep silence in ekklesia ("gatherings" -- trans. "churches"). But there was indeed a Roman law stating such. The fact is, Paul is pointing out this talk isn't simply disruptive: it is damaging the church's reputation as a confusing, disordered mass of people. And that's something that will draw the Empire's attention as a risk of rioting.

Click to expand...

This provoked curiosity... I ended up finding a site of Roman Law during the time of Augustus [r. 27BCE-14CE]. The site is a bottomless pit of documents.


"The laws of Constantius (337-361), the second selection, forbid intermarriage between Jewish men and Christian women."

Jewish History Sourcebook: Jews and the Later Roman Law 315-531 CE

24. Modestinus, Rules, Book I.

Where a man lives with a free woman, it is not considered concubinage but genuine matrimony, if she does not acquire gain by means of her body.

Medieval Sourcebook: Corpus Iuris Civilis: The Digest and Codex: Marriage Laws

Some other interesting links there..

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/rambam-yesodei-hatorah.txt

Medieval Sourcebook: Legislation Affecting the Jews from 300 to 800 CE

Medieval Sourcebook: Sex and Gender