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Questions about Presbyterian Theology

P_G

Pastor - ד ע ה - The Lunch Lady
Dec 13, 2003
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Blessings:

This is really a question for full time Presbyterian ministers.

I have been invited to preach at a local Presbyterian church (return invitation)
for a series of Sundays out through the spring (The pastor has retired there)

Now I have preached there before and it went well. But I come out of a very
charismatic background.
I would like to know the closer points of the theology of this church and how you feel it differs from other churches.

I ask this not for the sake of debate but so as that I don't step on any toes accidentily (I would prefer to step on toes intentionally thanks!)

What ever information you can render I am sure will be of help and I thank you for it.


Pastor George
 
Hello Mr Centre.

I'm not a Presbyterian minister but I am a member of one and I often preach at our church and our branch churches. I can give you a few pointers.

I'm assuming that you're from the USA. In the USA there are a number of different Presbyterian denominations. Some are quite liberal, others are quite conservative. I'm assuming that you'll be preaching to a more theologically conservative church.

I'm also assuming that you're still strongly Charismatic.

It would be good for you to do some research into the "Five points of Calvinism". Go to the Reformed/Evangelical forum and you'll see some links in a permanent posting about denominations. One of those links will be about Calvinism.

The 5 points of Calvinism can be summarised as "TULIP".

T = Total Depravity. This basically argues that everyone has sinned and deserves to go to hell. Because they are Spiritually dead, they cannot choose to serve God even when given the opportunity.
U = Unconditional Election. This is the idea that God chooses a person from before the beginning of time to become Christians. Essentially there is no "free will" here. People are elected not according anything good in themselves but unconditionally based upon God's Grace.
L = Limited Atonement. This is the idea that the death of Christ, while in and of itself is sufficient for the entire world, is effective only for those who have been predestined or elected as Christians. It is Limited only to those whom God has chosen to be Christians.
I = Irresistable Grace. This goes back to Election. Basically when God acts to save a person, they cannot resist him. If they are predestined, they will be unable to resist God's saving grace.
P = Perseverence of the Saints. Because of election, all Christians will persevere to the end and will not fall away.

This is not the forum to debate these views, but here they are all the same!

Most Presbyterian churches hold to the "Westminster Confession of Faith". This was written in 1646 as a summary of the faith they hold. It may be written in ye olde English but it is a goldmine of clear Biblical thinking. Go searching for it on the internet and have a quick read through it.

While you're at it, also quickly read the "Westminster Shorter Catechism" written around the same time.

The Presbyterian form of Church Government is something you need to understand too.

Basically, Church members vote for Elders (Presbyters). These Elders meet together regularly (called the "Session"). They make all the important decisions for the church. It is sort of like a Parliament - the church members vote for people who then make the decisions. It is not a congregational model (democracy) nor is it an episcopal model (autocracy). The minister is simply one of the elders who make up the session.

As far as your preaching/leading the service goes, I suggest the following:

1) Preach from passages of scripture rather than single verses or topics. If you're there for a while, attempt to preach through a book of the New Testament (Galatians or Philippians would be good).

2) Don't attempt to "slay" or heal anyone during the service. I'm not saying this to insult you, but to warn you that they may not appreciate it.

3) Some Presbyterian churches are amenable to modern songs. Try to introduce new stuff along with good old stuff (And can it be, Rejoice the Lord is King, God has spoken by his prophets, My hope is built on nothing less, Tell out my soul, God is our strength and refuge and so on).

4) Don't be afraid to be passionate during the service, but keep control and avoid any emotional manipulation. Again I'm not saying this to insult you, but the people may find too much emotion offensive!

5) Be genuine and talk with the congregation over tea and coffee after the service.

6) And, obviously, pray that God gives you the wisdom to speak his word in love to the church.

I'm happy to discuss this with you further. I've made a number of assumptions about you and the Presbyterian church you are going to. It might be good to clarify a few things for me.
 
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P_G

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Dear neilinoz:

Thank you for your insights.
You are quite correct in all of your assumptions
The Church is PCA and the situaton is that the Pastor
has retired and the church is looking for local ministers
to cover untill they get a replacement.

The former pastor is a dear friend of my wife and myself and we have
a long history at this church as ones who ran a civic group that met
in the church for many years.

As I am ordained I had mentioned to the elders that if they needed
coverage that I was available. So at this point I have done one service there
and they people really enjoyed it.

I guess many had never seen an altar call before at a Presbyterian church
and now I can see why. In any event I have been called back for 3
additional Sundays. After speaking with my friend the former pastor, he tells
me that he has not really pushed the doctrine of predestination at all.

So basically I won't be preaching that. I just wanted to check to make sure
that I did not preach something that would go directly against the theology of the church. (We shall be staying away from all discussion of Baptisim! )

And too I agree some of the more spirtually intense aspects of the Charismatic movement will probably not be in evidence. At the first service I did there though I did annoint and pray over a man and when I felt his knees start to buckle I realized that my usual cadre of elders and catchers was not there so before this fellow hit the deck I cut the prayer short.

I am excited about this opportunity to hold hands across denomniational ties. This is a big goal of my ministry. But then what could you expect from a "Messianic Charismatic Mennonite"? (We're the ones with the flat black tambourines and 2 orange triangles on the back of our buggies)

Many Blessings and thanks

Pastor George
 
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P_G

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Thank you Altya! Always so good to get some tactical prayer support!

One of the most exciting aspects of this is that my sending church is Mennonite. If one looks at the long past history, the spirtual ancestors of the Presbyrterian Church and the Mennonite Church were really at each others throats. Actually the Mennonites were pretty badly persicuted by the Reformists.

I truely see this as our wonderful Jesus in part getting his children to hold hands again. Without seperations of philisophical ideology.

Am I Amonist? Am I Calvinist? Am I Papist?

I am a child of God - Keep it simple - Sing Sunday School Songs!

Jesus loves me this I know!


Much Love all y'all the Lord gave me the message already for next Sunday and I am excited about all of this.

Blessings

Pastor George
 
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Cara J

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Hello Pastor George!
I was raised in the Presbyterian church (although I now attend a non-denominational church). You were right to assume that they had not seen an altar call before at their church. It REALLY scared me when I saw one for the first at a "Spirit fiilled" church. Presbyterians do not speak in tongues in church or "slay" in the Spirit. This might be scary for some members of the congregation, so I would suggest being very cautious with those practices. (I am in no way condemning those practices, just talking in relation to these specific circumstances)
As far as your preaching goes, I have read many of the messages you have posted in many threads and I think you are a wonderful preacher and have an excellent way of helping people, and of explaining and spreading the Word of God! I am sure you will do an extraordinary job and the Pres. church you are preaching at is very lucky to have you!
I am also praying that The Holy Spirit will fill you with words that speak to the congregation's hearts!

God Bless you always,
Cara
 
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