Questions about man made religions.

Hector Medina · May 22, 2002

Greetings to Josephus and all others-

1) To my understanding every religion besides Christanity and Judisim is >MAN MADE<.
You could find the tombs of all(or most)of the religions' creators.

2) To my understanding all denominations are >MAN MADE< and we are all christians with the same respects.

3)I don't think you don't have to follow many of the ridiculious rules in >MAN MADE< religions(according to God).
I even heard some of the rules in Christian denominations
are actually pagan and satanic-influence

PLEASE NOTE:I'm not saying that religions are bad,I'm just talking about them,I have a denomination myself and I don't follow all of its rules.

I hope you could help.

Sincerely,

Hector Xavier Medina

Josephus · May 22, 2002

What's your question? Or what is it that you need?

Hector Medina · May 22, 2002

Those are my questions.

Sorry,I guess I didn't quite post them in questions forms.

Sinc.

Hector

Josephus · May 22, 2002

Could you try to form them into questions? If so, you may find that you yourself already have the answer.

Hector Medina · May 22, 2002

Josephus,

Your right.

I'll think of ones I don't have the awnsers to.

Thank You,

Hector

Gamecock · Nov 21, 2003

Hector Medina said:
Greetings to Josephus and all others-

1) To my understanding every religion besides Christanity and Judisim is >MAN MADE<.
You could find the tombs of all(or most)of the religions' creators.

2) To my understanding all denominations are >MAN MADE< and we are all christians with the same respects.

3)I don't think you don't have to follow many of the ridiculious rules in >MAN MADE< religions(according to God).
I even heard some of the rules in Christian denominations
are actually pagan and satanic-influence

PLEASE NOTE:I'm not saying that religions are bad,I'm just talking about them,I have a denomination myself and I don't follow all of its rules.

I hope you could help.

Sincerely,

Hector Xavier Medina

As far as your question on denominations goes, on another thread we decided that that Paul was a Calvinist.

Rafael · Nov 22, 2003

Religion can be very man made, full of pride and all the weaknesses man has in the old nature. A true relationship with God ends up being more of a list of dos rather than don'ts, as knowing God produces the fruit of His Spirit in ones life. This work is of God, as He is the author and finisher of our faith, but we are also encouraged to make ourselve pure so that we can become vessels more fit for His use. Church is a place where these things are to be nurtured and our gifts God has given us to be stirred up - into action instead of just lip service. A true faith has to have arms, legs, wheels, - ACTION or deed.
Whatever word is used to describe a man's actions towards God, religion included, none are as important as His action towards us, and how we respond to His actions towards us and provision is what really matters - not just empty names or words.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the masters use, and prepared unto every good work.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Timothy 1:6 ¶ For which cause I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee through the laying on of my hands.

Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

1 John 3:16 Hereby know we love, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath the worlds goods, and beholdeth his brother in need, and shutteth up his compassion from him, how doth the love of God abide in him?
18 My Little children, let us not love in word, neither with the tongue; but in deed and truth.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

kris4h · Nov 22, 2003

denominations are satanic-influence

im non-denominational so i agree with you, we should all just read the bible and follow what it says instead of trying to make things up.

Photini · Nov 22, 2003

we should all just read the bible and follow what it says instead of trying to make things up

Sadly, I think that's part of what's causing the ever-splintering divisions. When we seperate Scripture from God-inspired Holy Tradition our interpretations become distorted. We must have a measuring stick, if you may, to use as a criterion for truth when reading Scripture. Our Enemy has a hayday with people's imaginations and can tempt us into reading a multitude of erroneous teachings into the Scripture.

Serapha · Nov 22, 2003

Hector Medina said:
2) To my understanding all denominations are >MAN MADE< and we are all christians with the same respects.

Hi there!

There were "denominations" in Judaism also, the essenes, the pharisees, the sadducees, the hasidics... and the lines between the beliefs were drawn by man, but the oracles that were the basis of the beliefs still came from God.

In the same understanding, there are "denominations" in Christianity, the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherans, etc., where the lines between the denominations are drawn by mayn, but the beliefs are still drawn from the oracles given by God.

~malaka~

Rafael · Nov 22, 2003

Hector Medina said:
Greetings to Josephus and all others-

Hector Medina said:
1) To my understanding every religion besides Christanity and Judisim is >MAN MADE<.
You could find the tombs of all(or most)of the religions' creators.

2) To my understanding all denominations are >MAN MADE< and we are all christians with the same respects.

3)I don't think you don't have to follow many of the ridiculious rules in >MAN MADE< religions(according to God).
I even heard some of the rules in Christian denominations
are actually pagan and satanic-influence

PLEASE NOTE:I'm not saying that religions are bad,I'm just talking about them,I have a denomination myself and I don't follow all of its rules.

I hope you could help.

Sincerely,

Hector Xavier Medina

No matter what denomination, God knows who you are and what relationship you have with Him. He will direct our steps even when we think we are planning our own course. We look to Him and bow our knee to find truth, strength, and guidance through this world with its shadow of death.

Jer. 10:23 NLV: I know, LORD, that a person's life is not his own. No one is able to plan his own course.

Proverbs 16:33 We may throw the dice, but the LORD determines how they fall.

Psa 121:3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

1Sa 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

Job 23:11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined.

Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

Dark_Lite · Nov 27, 2003

I'm not too sure about Judaism but Christianity was formed out of Jesus' disciples. From there it became more widespread and structured into Catholicism. Then we have the Orthodox-Catholic split, then the Protestant split, etc...

opheiletes · Nov 27, 2003

I`m sorry if some people find this offensive, but the Roman Catholic and Othodox church in particular have -tons- of pagan practices incorporated, especially in practice...

"Patron" saints of various crafts and purposes in Catholicism (which simply replaced ancient pagan cults for the patron deities) is specifically dubious.

The Pope even came to be known as "Pontifex Maximus" -- an imperial title designating the reigning augustus as the sole patron of all pagan cults.

The pagan influence in formal observance of Christmas, All Saints and Easter is well attested so I`ll refrain from commenting on that.

But icons, pictures and such of Jesus, Mary, saints and the Holy Spirit is directly against the Ten Commandments--some of the early Church fathers were shocked to find pictures of Christ in some churches they visited for this reason, but the practice continued and even flourished.

I honestly don`t think a 1st or 2nd century Christian would even recognize the form of worship (and perhaps some of the doctrines) that`s going on in modern Catholicism or Orthodoxy which both claim to be "the real thing."

Oblio · Nov 27, 2003

opheiletes said:
I`m sorry if some people find this offensive, but the Roman Catholic and Othodox church in particular have -tons- of pagan practices incorporated, especially in practice...

Right

"Patron" saints of various crafts and purposes in Catholicism (which simply replaced ancient pagan cults for the patron deities) is specifically dubious.

Patron Saints have nothing to do with paganism, it has to do with the Biblical practice of Christians praying for one another.

The Pope even came to be known as "Pontifex Maximus" -- an imperial title designating the reigning augustus as the sole patron of all pagan cults.

I'll let a RC answer this but I suspect it is of the same caliber as the rest of your accusations.

The pagan influence in formal observance of Christmas, All Saints and Easter is well attested so I`ll refrain from commenting on that.

Bssst again. We celebrate the Incarnation of our Lord that made possible our salvation. We celebrate the work of the Holy Spirit in the work of all the Saints, especially those that are unknown. We celebtate Christ defeating death by death thus giving us eternal Life. Hardly pagan.

But icons, pictures and such of Jesus, Mary, saints and the Holy Spirit is directly against the Ten Commandments--some of the early Church fathers were shocked to find pictures of Christ in some churches they visited for this reason, but the practice continued and even flourished.

Then you obviously misunderstand the Commandment and the practices of the Jews (which were commanded by God to creat images for worship) prior to and after Christ. You also misunderstand the ecclesiastical structure of the Church Christ gave us. Just because a Church Father was shocked (cite please !) does not mean that the Church agrees with him or that he is not in error. Individual Church Fathers do not make Church doctrine and Dogma, the Holy Spirit working through Church councils determines this.

I honestly don`t think a 1st or 2nd century Christian would even recognize the form of worship (and perhaps some of the doctrines) that`s going on in modern Catholicism or Orthodoxy which both claim to be "the real thing."

Then you have not been out much, last week I visited the church that St. Paul preached in (an Orthodox church BTW) in Thessaloniki. I walked through catacombs beneath other Orthodox chuches that had extant images of the Theotokos that are identical to images 1000 years older on Mt. Athos in Greece and are identical to those in my church and my home.

BarbB · Nov 27, 2003

opheiletes said:
I`m sorry if some people find this offensive, but the Roman Catholic and Othodox church in particular have -tons- of pagan practices incorporated, especially in practice...

I do not believe that you, as a non-Christian, are able to post here except to ask a question. Please honor that!

armed2010 · Nov 27, 2003

newlamb said:
I do not believe that you, as a non-Christian, are able to post here except to ask a question. Please honor that!

He was giving some correct and informative information about catholic practices.

opheiletes · Nov 28, 2003

Oblio said:
Then you obviously misunderstand the Commandment and the practices of the Jews (which were commanded by God to creat images for worship) prior to and after Christ. You also misunderstand the ecclesiastical structure of the Church Christ gave us. Just because a Church Father was shocked (cite please !) does not mean that the Church agrees with him or that he is not in error. Individual Church Fathers do not make Church doctrine and Dogma, the Holy Spirit working through Church councils determines this.

Then you have not been out much, last week I visited the church that St. Paul preached in (an Orthodox church BTW) in Thessaloniki. I walked through catacombs beneath other Orthodox chuches that had extant images of the Theotokos that are identical to images 1000 years older on Mt. Athos in Greece and are identical to those in my church and my home.

"The process [using themes of gospel in architecture, sculpture, mosaic decoration, and in paintings] had already begun within the church even before Constantine appeared. The Spanish council of Elvira recorded its shocked disapproval of some churches with paintings on the walls, but the fact that such places existed was not suppressed, and the tide became a flood in the course of the fourth century."

"Nevertheless, the older puritanism was not stifled or killed. About 327 historian and bishop Eusebius of Caesraea received a letter from the emperor`s sister Constantia asking him for a picture of Christ. Eusebius wrote her a very stern reply--taking it granted that only pagan artists would dream of making such representations."

"A similarly iconoclastic view was taken by Epiphanius of Salamis who was horrified to find in Palestine a curtain in a church porch with a picture of Christ or some saint--he tore it down and lodged an official protest."

The views I quoted, are all from primary sources, from the minutes of the council of Elvira in the West, of Eusebius of "Church History" fame and can be found in Henry Chadwick`s seminal work, "The Early Church."

You should be aware that for a century, the Byzantine Empire was ruled by iconoclastic emperors and patriarchs who wished the Christian Church to return to its original roots and shed the pagan influences. What art historians view as a triumph of art over scripture, you must be viewing as the interecession of the holy spirit--which is fair enough.

The legend of Abgar, the primary case for iconophiles, was of course first observed in early 5th century, but such details should not bother the intellectual realm of a "true believer", right?

As for my own experience. I do get out alot, thank you, also happen to study Byzantine History in graduate school.

I`m very much interested in Christianity and agree that the message of Jesus Christ is of utmost importance to mankind. I just don`t think that neither the Catholic Church nor Orthodoxy made a good job of transmitting that message.

Peace

Dark_Lite · Nov 28, 2003

newlamb said:
I do not believe that you, as a non-Christian, are able to post here except to ask a question. Please honor that!

Actually the Church has been influenced by Pagan cults, religions, and ...influences. Christmas in particular is one that was moved to coincide with the winter solstice. It made converting pagans easier.

Oblio · Nov 28, 2003

What art historians view as a triumph of art over scripture, you must be viewing as the interecession of the holy spirit--which is fair enough.

Please provide examples of where Holy Icons contradict or triumph over Scripture.

Oblio · Nov 28, 2003

I just don`t think that neither the Catholic Church nor Orthodoxy made a good job of transmitting that message.

Then pray tell how did you get the optimal message that you are comparing with what was transmitted by the Church ?? Divine personal revelation

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