Questions About Hell

smithed64 said:

3. We can safely say for certain, that if you do not believe now and repent of your sins, you will live eternally in endless misery.

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There is nothing safe or certain about living eternally in endless misery.
Can't even call that living.

Hard to imagine why anyone would accuse our loving heavenly Father of such atrocities.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

FineLinen said:

Dear Smithy: There is no such animal as His permissive will. Mankind has been "made subject to futility NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him who made it so."

Not by any choice of our own, the thelo Will of all wills prevails.

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Sorry linen, you are incorrect.
Because He is omniscience, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
He cannot violate His own nature. Therefore, we say that God has the power to choose and accomplish only that which is consistent with His perfect nature.

Only God possesses omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence. There is none other anywhere at any time that possesses these divine qualities. Because He possesses these abilities, there are logical conclusions that we draw from them:

1. Since He is omnipotent, He has the power to accomplish anything He desires.
   1. He can create, alter, or destroy a universe, and all that is in it.
2. Since He is omnipresent, nothing is hidden from Him.
   1. This includes all dimensions; all time, whether past, present, or future; and every form of existence, whether thought, action, or substance.
3. Since He is omniscient, He knows all things actual, as well as potential.
4. Furthermore, to deny God's omniscience is to deny His omnipresence.
   1. In order for God to know all things, He must be in all places at all times; past, present, and future.
5. If God's omniscience is denied, then so is His omnipresence.
6. If God's omniscience and omnipresence are denied, then this god is not the God of the Bible.
7. Finally, since God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, He is able to create anything He desires while retaining perfect knowledge and complete control of all actual objects and actions - including perfect knowledge and complete control of all possible combinations of events of all those objects and actions.

This means that we can trust God to work His will in our lives since He is also loving and good.

Because He loves us:
1. He allows things to happen to us to remind us of that love.
2. He lets the rain fall on the just and unjust alike.
3. He will even use those who are not His to accomplish His will.
4. He allows us to make choices, we are not robots nor are things determined.

That's just a touch of what His permissive will is.

Your god, may not do these things, because he doesn't exist.
You have broken the first commandment linen, by creating a god of your own choosing. I warn you this is a sin. I pray that you will see this and realize that there is only one God Jehovah.

"Hear O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is ONE." Deut. 6:4 it is also called The Shema.
"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Tim 2:5

There is but only one God.
He desires for all men to be saved.
To be saved, you must be born again, to be born again, you must repent of your sins and place your Trust in Christ. You either are His or you reject Him. One you gain eternal life with the Father. The other you will be separated from God completely.
God loves us so much that he would never push himself upon us. If you or anyone else decides to reject Him, He will give you what you want. A life and eternity without Him. Without absolute unconditional Love, without the Hope of the resurrection, without Grace, without Mercy. Without so many wonderful and amazing things that He has promised us.

Linen, you can spout as much Greek as you like. But if you don't understand who God truly is, nor have the Love of Christ in your life. It doesn't matter what language you use.

FineLinen said:

Dear Smithy: Nonsense.

Jesus Christ has come to heal the broken hearted and bind up their wounds. That is precisely what He does!

There is no such animal as aidios misery/ eleeinos in the Father of all fathers.

The Lord Lesous, the Saviour of the all sets the prisoners of sin free!

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You call Christ a liar?

Saint Steven said:

There is nothing safe or certain about living eternally in endless misery.
Can't even call that living.

Hard to imagine why anyone would accuse our loving heavenly Father of such atrocities.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

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Then who said these things?

22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And [r]besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [e]take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

In his classic Knowing God, J. I. Packer writes of the goodness and severity of God: “The character of God is the guarantee that all wrongs will be righted someday; when the ‘day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed’ (Rom 2:5) arrives, retribution will be exact, and no problems of cosmic unfairness will remain to haunt us. God is the Judge, so justice will be done” (143).

Saint Steven, your god must not be just, righteous and good.

But Jehovah God, the one true God and His son Jesus are. And as Mr. Packer says above. "The charater of God is the guarantee that ll wrongs will be righted someday..."

Romans 2:5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 But [a]because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Because people have made a god of their own and their stubborness to continue with the lie that God of Heaven will not judge. I warn anyone and everyone to stop this nonsense, because it's a lie. He will judge us, Those who don't obey God, repent and place their trust in Christ, will go away into eternal punishment. Those who do repent and place their trust in Christ, the righteous into eternal life with Christ.

smithed64 said:

Sorry linen, you are incorrect.
Because He is omniscience, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
He cannot violate His own nature. Therefore, we say that God has the power to choose and accomplish only that which is consistent with His perfect nature.

Only God possesses omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence. There is none other anywhere at any time that possesses these divine qualities. Because He possesses these abilities, there are logical conclusions that we draw from them:

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Hello Bro, think I might chime in here.

God knows the end from the beginning. The beginning is His Salvation and so is the end. Surely these principles are axiomatic, no?

So in His omnipotence He has declared that Christian salvation is the final scene, the denouement of the divine comedy, if you will.

So I invite you to compare and contrast 'salvation' with 'damnation'. Can they dwell together? They're mutually exclusive, no?

You might want to take a sneak peek at the end of the Good Book, you'll find [spoiler alert] that all things are renewed (Rev 21:6), the nations are cleansed (20:9, 20:15), emerging subdued (21:24-26) to be healed by Christ (22:2). It really is a beautiful vision, and to my way of thinking something of an improvement on the popular mass human bbq tableau. What do you think?

It's hard to see how the gospel of mass torture is good news for anyone. Perhaps you'd enlighten us?

smithed64 said:

eternal punishment

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Strong's Greek: 2851. κόλασις (kolasis) -- correction

God wouldn't be very effective if He couldn't achieve the corrective directive. Correct?

As in RECTify to the CORe.

Ouchies, but it's a good kind of hurt.

Shrewd Manager said:

Hello Bro, think I might chime in here.

God knows the end from the beginning. The beginning is His Salvation and so is the end. Surely these principles are axiomatic, no?

So in His omnipotence He has declared that Christian salvation is the final scene, the denouement of the divine comedy, if you will.

So I invite you to compare and contrast 'salvation' with 'damnation'. Can they dwell together? They're mutually exclusive, no?

You might want to take a sneak peek at the end of the Good Book, you'll find [spoiler alert] that all things are renewed (Rev 21:6), the nations are cleansed (20:9, 20:15), emerging subdued (21:24-26) to be healed by Christ (22:2). It really is a beautiful vision, and to my way of thinking something of an improvement on the popular mass human bbq tableau. What do you think?

It's hard to see how the gospel of mass torture is good news for anyone. Perhaps you'd enlighten us?

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Love to Brother,

The beginning was His perfect design. Not His salvation. there was was no need for salvation in the beginning, sin had not entered the picture.
The end is judgement, then destruction, then the rebuilding of the earth and the New Kingdom.

What are we saved from?

FineLinen said:

Dear Smithy: You will note the qualifications for aionios kolasis (AKA "everlasting punishment").

1. I was hungry and you did not feed Me.

2. I was thirsty and you did not give Me to drink.

3. I was a stranger & you did not invite Me in.

4. I was naked & you did not clothe Me.

5. I was sick and in prison & you did not visit me.

ON the SHEEP and the GOATS By Jonathan Mitchell

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I know that if you don't have Christ and the fruits of the Spirit, you wouldn't want to do what is above.
Also note, that these things don't get you into heaven for just doing them, you must also repent of your sins and place your trust in Christ.

Your saved by grace, not by works, lest any man should boast.

FineLinen said:

Dear Smithy: The Saviour of the whole world is not a potential Saviour. He saves the all. In fact He not only saves He brings every last one "made sinners" in Adam 1 to "made righteous" in Him.

I repeat:

Jesus Christ has come to heal the broken hearted and bind up their wounds. That is precisely what He does!

There is no such animal as aidios misery (eleeinos) in the Father of all fathers.

Jesus Christ has come to heal the broken hearted and bind up their wounds. That is precisely what He does!

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He did, but they must believe that He will first. If they reject Him, they aren't believing in Him. They are leaning unto their own understanding. Thinking that their way is the right way. But that way leads to death.

He will heal the broken heart and bind up their wounds.

But what does Christ say before He says come to me who are broken hearted and weary.

20 Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. 24 Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.”

25 At that [y]time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. 26 Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 27 All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” [/quote/]

He condemns and denounces the cities he healed broken hears but did not repent.

Shows the selfishness of mankind. To receive freely given, yet not willing to put away self to serve the same God that healed you.

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FineLinen said:

Dear Smithy: Let's stick to the context of the ONLY verse in Canon that speaks of "everlasting punishment". The Master clearly states what separates the sheep and the goats.

You will also note the Master is speaking of pure virgins, 5 wise & 5 foolish but all virgins. You will also note the Lord Lesous is not speaking of one clean animal & 1 unclean, but both clean animals.

WHY?

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No, your picking and choosing scripture, taking them completely out of context.

Yes, they were all virgins, some chose to server the Master correctly and obey Him. Others chose not to serve the Master and wasted their oil and was not ready for the Master to return.

This shows How man should repent of their sins, place their trust in Christ. To be ready for the Marriage supper of the Lamb. For when He calls us home, whether in death or to be taken away in the last days.
Are you Ready? Have you placed your trust in Christ.

The sheep are His, He is the Great Shepherd. He watches over us, just as a shepherd watches over his sheep. with love and caring. Helping them and protecting them. When one goes astray, He tries to make sure it is brought back into the fold. But if the sheep is foolish and doesn't watch where it is going can run into the world of danger, where wolves and other predators can, steal, kill and destroy it. If it doesn't listen to the call of the shepherd and heed it, to come back to where it belongs, with Him.

The goats, are those that are caught up in their stubborn pride, unruly and want to go their own way. No matter what the shepherd does. They eat up everything in their path with their selfishness, foolishness and uncaring ways. They turn to themselves and think they have it all under control. When they don't and they rebel against the shepherd. Head butting him with their rejection and prideful manner. They do not belong to Christ, they don't want to be. So they will be separated from the sheep to meet the destruction they so desire, by not listening to the Shepherd.

FineLinen said:

Dear Smithy: when did you decide to be "made" a sinner?

Believing into Christ Jesus is a powerful experience for those who have heard His call.

You will note that every last being in every dimension of the heavens, earth and underworld ultimately bows the knee before Him in worship, not "at" the sound of His lovely Name, but IN/EN union and communion with the Name.

Not perfunctory genuflections: in/en the Name of Jesus Christ

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just as you, I was born unto sin. Because with Adam brought in sin into this world.

FineLinen said:

Dear Smithy: when did you decide to be "made" a sinner?

Believing into Christ Jesus is a powerful experience for those who have heard His call.

You will note that every last being in every dimension of the heavens, earth and underworld ultimately bows the knee before Him in worship, not "at" the sound of His lovely Name, but IN/EN union and communion with the Name.

Not perfunctory genuflections: in/en the Name of Jesus Christ

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Philippians 2:9-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;


Romans 14:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
11 For it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall [a]give praise to God.”

12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

Philippians tells us that everyone shall bend knee, correct. The ones who are righteous and those who are in their sins. To proclaim Jesus Christ is the Lord. Where there will no longer be any doubt to who He is, by anyone.
We are to work out our salvation, doesn't mean your earn it by works. It means for us to be vigilante and studying the Word of God, examining ourselves to the Word, not trying to make the Word match us. For none of us are good, nor righteous enough for that.

Romans tells the same thing, but this is on how He lives, not just His name. And everyone, will give an account of himself to God. Hence Judgement of our deeds. Whether we repented of our sins, Placed our trust in Christ. Or keep to our selfish, prideful ways, thinking we are right, which we aren't.