Question to TAW.....

Rising_Suns · Apr 24, 2004

dear brothers and sisters,
A thought came to me today regarding the writings of the Saints and their visions from God. I was curious if anyone has read of a Saint receiving insight regarding the internal conflict of God's Church; regarding the division with the various Protestant denominations, and of course the schism between east and west. It would be interesting to hear what God has to say about all this.

May God's peace be with you all.

Photini · Apr 25, 2004

I have read some articles from a few regarding schisms and apostasy from the Church. I'll have to get back to it tomorrow though. One that immediately comes to mind is Archbishop Averky, and also St John of Kronstadt.

MariaRegina · Apr 25, 2004

Photini said:
I have read some articles from a few regarding schisms and apostasy from the Church. I'll have to get back to it tomorrow though. One that immediately comes to mind is Archbishop Averky, and also St John of Kronstadt.

There was an Orthodox Saint (was it St. Seraphim or St. John of Kronstadt?) who had an apparition of St. Francis Assisi. In this apparition St. Francis favored the Orthodox Church.

When my husband was a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, he was studying the works of Catherine Emmerich, a holy Catholic nun, much to the dismay of the Orthodox Priest. Anyway, the cover of her books said that these writings were edited to conform to Catholic Teachings. These books called the Orthodox schismatics, not surprisingly. So we cannot take these books of Catherine Emmerich as her words due to the editings which occurred and the lack of cohesiveness found in these writings.

Another Catholic writing that indicates something unusual will happen in the future is one of the visions of Don Bosco. The ship containing the Pope is trying to sail between two pillars (only found leading to Constantinople), when the ship almost strikes one of these pillars. It is enabled at last to sail between them. One pillar is Christ (the right side) and on the left side is the Theotokos. Incidentally, the pillars leading into the Altar of the Orthodox Church have the same arrangement with the Icon of Christ on the Right and the Icon of the Theotokos on the left side. So does this mean that the Catholic Church will enter Orthodoxy? When my husband read about this vision, it was a sign to him to enter the Orthodox Church, and he did.

Hope this helps.
Elizabeth

Rising_Suns · Apr 25, 2004

There was an Orthodox Saint (was it St. Seraphim or St. John of Kronstadt?) who had an apparition of St. Francis Assisi. In this apparition St. Francis favored the Orthodox Church.

That is interesting because Saint Francis was known to believe in particular theologies that do not agree Orthodox Tradition.

These books called the Orthodox schismatics, not surprisingly. So we cannot take these books of Catherine Emmerich as her words due to the editings which occurred and the lack of cohesiveness found in these writings.

Oh wonderfull, lol, now we can't take anything anyone has written seriously due to aparent political adgendas of publishers. That just shatters my whole exhaustive search process.

On a side note, elizabeth, do the colors red, gold, and cream white mean anything to you?

Orthodox Andrew · Apr 25, 2004

The idea of Francis of Asisi favoring the Orthodox Church would only come down to which Church is the true one. Him being anti-Orthodox in his teaching on earth would have no baring on his feelings on the Church in glory. Not that I'm saying the apparition of him was real or not, I'm just trying to throw some logic into the situation.

Photini · Apr 25, 2004

chanter said:
There was an Orthodox Saint (was it St. Seraphim or St. John of Kronstadt?) who had an apparition of St. Francis Assisi. In this apparition St. Francis favored the Orthodox Church.

Yes it was St Seraphim of Sarov. The vision is recorded in the biography written by Archimandrite Lazarus Moore. In brief, the story is about a Protestant woman who had taken a great fondness for St Francis and began seeking the true Church. One evening she was reading the biography of the life of St Francis in a garden and fell into a light sleep. She then had a vision of St Francis and another little old man "like a patriarch, bent but radiant". St Francis said to her, "My daughter, you seek the true Church. It is there, where he is. It supports everyone, and does not require support from anyone." The lady woke up, but didn't know who the little old man was that St Francis pointed to, but the thought came to her that this was somehow connected to the Russian Orthodox Church. Later they hired a Russian workman, and when she visited his room to see whether he was settled in or needed anything, she saw in his room a small Icon of St Seraphim of Sarov and immediately recognized him as the old man in her vision.

Rising_Suns · Apr 25, 2004

One evening she was reading the biography of the life of St Francis in a garden and fell into a light sleep.

thank you for the story heather. One question though; how did she know this dream was from God?

Photini · Apr 25, 2004

St Ignatius (Brianchaninov) said, "Do not dare to raise your weak hand to stop the elemental tide of apostasy. Avoid it, protect yourself from it, and that is enough for you. Get to know the spirit of the times, study it so you can avoid its influence whenever possible."

Rising_Suns · Apr 25, 2004

Photini said:
St Ignatius (Brianchaninov) said, "Do not dare to raise your weak hand to stop the elemental tide of apostasy. Avoid it, protect yourself from it, and that is enough for you. Get to know the spirit of the times, study it so you can avoid its influence whenever possible."

Could you interpret this for me heather?

Photini · Apr 25, 2004

Rising_Suns said:
thank you for the story heather. One question though; how did she know this dream was from God?

Dave I wish I had an answer for you, but the subject of the book is the life of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and not the particulars of this woman. This vision is given one page of space in a 500 page book. The section of the book it is mentioned in, is also mentioning other visions and miracles that St. Seraphim has appeared in and performed after his repose.

If you are curious about the particulars, here's the name of the publisher:

New Sarov Press
Blanco, Texas 78606-1049

The title and author of the book are:

St. Seraphim of Sarov, A Spiritual Biography by Archimandrite Lazarus Moore.

It's copyright date is 1994.

Photini · Apr 25, 2004

Rising_Suns said:
Could you interpret this for me heather?

The "spirit" of apostasy is not just something that takes place "out there" or with a big group splitting apart, but it's roots go into the heart of man. We are living in times where Christians are losing touch with the essence of their faith and therefore losing touch with the grace of the Holy Spirit. There is a strong doubt about the existence of Truth.

I could ramble on and on and on...

Rising_Suns · Apr 25, 2004

Photini said:
I could ramble on and on and on...

Yes, but your ramblings are not empty words so they're much appreciated. just warn me next time before you take off on a tangental stream of consciousness.

Matthias · May 3, 2004

I'm confused.

Rising_Suns · May 3, 2004

Matthias said:
I'm confused.

me too, mathias, me too.

nice avatar by the way. I used to practice a form of Fung Fu called Eagle Claw...if you watch the movie kill bill vol 2, there are actual fist forms used. i would not recommend the movie to anyone though; much too violent, especially the first one. the violence is too damaging to the soul.

crouching tiger hidden dragon was beautifully made though; one of my personal favorite movies. the soundtrack is wonderfull as well; Yo yo ma and Tan Dun are both very gifted.

xenia · May 3, 2004

<<<she saw in his room a small Icon of St Seraphim of Sarov and immediately recognized him as the old man in her vision.>>>

What a wonderful story! And St. Seraphim's sweet face is so easily recognizable that it makes sense.

(Not that miracles have to make sense!)

Love, Xenia

Photini · May 4, 2004

Xenia, I love St. Seraphim of Sarov. I smiled and had such a warm "feeling" the entire time I read his biography. I could barely put the book down until I was finished. I chose Seraphim as my son's baptismal name....Coincidentally, my son even became absorbed by the biography of the Saint (I bought a shorter "children's" version for him to read) and wouldn't put it down until he had finished it.

Photini · May 4, 2004

Matthias said:
I'm confused.

Don't worry...it's not uncommon after an encounter with me. Sometimes something makes perfect sense to me in my mind, and after I relay it to others I can tell by their blank stares that I'm making no sense whatsoever.

Matthias · May 5, 2004

Rising_Suns said:
I used to practice a form of Fung Fu called Eagle Claw...

That's awesome. How did you go? Gung Fu, Kung Fu, Fung Fu, Wushu, it's all the same thing bit different translation; very interesting stuff.

I love violence; I hope that doesn't change anyone's opinion of me. I love violent video games, (GTA: Vice City is the best!), violent movies, you name it; if it's violent, I love it. Of course it doesn't mean I like "real life" violence...

I'm starting to turn my bedroom into a Chinese temple. The incense is so relaxing, and I'll never use a knife and fork again!

Rising_Suns · May 5, 2004

Matthias said:
That's awesome. How did you go? Gung Fu, Kung Fu, Fung Fu, Wushu, it's all the same thing bit different translation; very interesting stuff.

I love violence; I hope that doesn't change anyone's opinion of me. I love violent video games, (GTA: Vice City is the best!), violent movies, you name it; if it's violent, I love it. Of course it doesn't mean I like "real life" violence...

I'm starting to turn my bedroom into a Chinese temple. The incense is so relaxing, and I'll never use a knife and fork again!

It was called Kung Fu, and sometimes Gung Fu. But I found myself with very little time to continue going, so I had to stop. i am not one for violence either, but it was great excerise. I know how violence can be alluring though; my favorite video game was resident Evil II, when it first came out, which is extremely violent. Thank God I was able to sell my video game consoles...as long as you arm yourself with the armor of God, with the breastplate of riteouness and the helmet of salvation. (eph 6:11)

Rilian · May 5, 2004

Matthias said:
I love violence; I hope that doesn't change anyone's opinion of me. I love violent video games, (GTA: Vice City is the best!), violent movies, you name it; if it's violent, I love it. Of course it doesn't mean I like "real life" violence...

Matthias, forgive my intrusion and I don't wish to judge, but I find this sentiment highly disturbing. I think the violence you describe cannot be disconnected from "real life". It is symptomatic, iconic of and intertwined with the violence of real life. I think this violence, even if on the screen or a game console, is a talisman of culture that stands directly at odds with the ethics and moral underpinnings of Christianity. Overall I believe it has a desensitizing effect that spills over directly into our acceptance of all forms of violence in this world.

I would also be troubled by a religious temple or altar drawn from a non-Christian faith used for personal devotion. That's just a personal feeling though.

I hesitated before posting this and hope you don't take offense at my remarks.

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