Question for theologically liberal Abrahamic theists

cloudyday2 said:

Thanks, @hedrick
Maybe you or others can give some thoughts on these questions?
(1) The Jesus of the gospels speaks of Moses, Jonah, Elijah, etc. In the Transfiguration, several disciples actually see Jesus with Moses and Elijah. If these stories of Moses, Jonah, and Elijah were myths, shouldn't Jesus have known they were myths and passed this important information to his disciples?

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It’s hard to know. I speak of the Fall and Adam in theological discussion even though I know it’s a legend. There are other possibilities, but I don’t think they would be permissible here.

(2) Many historians believe that the Samaritan Ten Commandments are more authentic than the Jewish/Christian Ten Commandments. If so, Jesus should have been born a Samaritan, and He should have been crucified on Mt. Gerizim, because those were apparently the more authentic Jews.

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That’s pretty hypothetical I think.

(3) Why did it take so long (sometime centuries) for the followers of Jesus to decide what Christianity meant? According to the Gospels, Jesus spent 40 days after His resurrection teaching His disciples.

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I think most Christians would say that what the Apostles knew was true Christianity. If it actually differed from later theology, then it wouldn’t be that it took hundreds of years to find out what Christianity meant, but rather that later theology got some things wrong. Most people here will argue, as I did above, that later theology actually doesn’t differ from what the disciples believed in essence. Rather, it differed in how people described it, in order to make it intelligible to a different culture.

(4) If Judaism was God's chosen religion, then why was Judaism apparently so unremarkable? Is there any difference between Mayans offering blood to their gods versus Jews throwing blood on their altar, painting blood above their doors to ward-off God's Angel of Death, etc.? Where is the evidence that God was helping the Jews to understand Him through Judaism?

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I think early Judaism really was very similar to other religions. God’s main job was to help the tribe defeat others. But you don’t want to look where it started but where it went. The prophets said that God didn’t want sacrifice; he wanted repentance. In that light, I think we have to view the sacrifices not as a way to placate God, but as a way to show the seriousness of the person’s repentance. The prophets also taught that God held Israel accountable not just for worshiping him, but for how they treated each other. And the picture of God also was of someone who loved his people even when the disobeyed, and tried to save them.

I don’t know the Mayan religion. It’s not my job to put down any other religion. But I think God actually did send people to help the Jews understand him.

If Noah is true and all humans came from Noah. Naturally it's very possible that multiple religions may share the same stories.

It's very natural that your grand papa's grand sons share a similar story about him.

On the other hand, the uniqueness of Abrahamic religions is the explicit demand of faith.

cloudyday2 said:

That is a good point about Noah.

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Yeah, except that the premise behind the thread is that OT history up through at least Moses isn't historically accurate. The OP is interested in the theological consequences of that.

You're not alone in thinking that Judaism was created during the Exile. However I'm skeptical. While I understand that Kings may be somewhat idealized, the picture you get there and the prophets does suggest that there were parts of the country that were either monotheistic or henotheistic. Jeremiah, at least, speaks of the Law in terms that suggest a Jewish concept of it. And of course Josiah is often thought to have introduced something like Deut.

As far as I know, the prophets are generally understood as being written around the time of the events they talk about (except Daniel). That's one thing that makes me skeptical about the idea that it was all made up during the Exile.

The story is complex, of course. Even taken at face value, Samuel and Kings suggest a country with very mixed religious practice. But I'd be wiling to bet some kind of Judaism was practiced in the Temple, and by some of the people (and some of the kings).

Not sure what your comment about Jesus means. We do see people practicing at least approximately the religion he founded fairly shortly thereafter. The non-Biblical material starts early enough that it overlaps the later NT books, and in fact the Didache may be as early as 50.

Hawkins said:

If Noah is true and all humans came from Noah. Naturally it's very possible that multiple religions may share the same stories.

It's very natural that your grand papa's grand sons share a similar story about him.

On the other hand, the uniqueness of Abrahamic religions is the explicit demand of faith.

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Well, in my "Abrahamic" religion there's an explicit demand for obedience.